Please be patient – LOL.
(This is kind of long, of course just chop out the logic and proof you may be able to use to reason with people also with your own understanding, thanks. And your welcome for any assistance from me, it is my pleasure, in fact when I have the time as I do now, I go a little overboard explaining certain things, but now-a-days I feel a more thorough explanation is required, for the misinformation of demons and erred mankind is in overdrive as well, so I try to give a good feel of the background logic of why I believe these various designs of principles and extra divine meaning are really, truly, covered in the bible, and also apparent in human history as the principle’s God shows have unfloded as he said they would, and all of this development God was in knowledge of how the Devil would try to play it, and the general course uf Adamic human trajectory to more error and eventual removal as will be required over the 1000 years, even now we see man is climaxing to a new global state of development that will have massive ramifications in time.
So thanks, of course take your time, and I apologize for the length of this, just had to really explain some stuff, to also “install” the logic in you to consider, as I see these kinds of logical thinking made me a believer, from being a total doubter, skeptic and escapist, I had to test these guys, I did not believe them, I dug up all the dirt I could, but in the end, from 1990 approx, to today, I have come to realize and believe that this is the framework of truth in the bible of God’s will that must take place on earth, as in heaven, and the developments of man, even in great sin and error, are within the logical framework of divine truth as revealed in the bible, and these logical things, is what Satan tries to distract away from with also other logic that goes only so far, as Satan is a mastermind of the dead end, and endless loop.)
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Satan’s Full Deception Progressively Broken
Firstly I’d like to say that we know Satan had 1600 years approximately before the flood to run his illusion and mayhem in full deception of the majority, with no organized effort by God to form in society a truth base like he has today. What started out as a seemingly enlightening encounter with this demon, eventually had to change nature. So we can imagine that as Adam and Eve began to procreate, somewhere in that interim of course Satan began the introduction of other “enlightened ones”, demons coming and going. At some point Adam and Eve must have understood strange things were “materializing” before their eyes so to speak, when demons were sleeping with their daughters, if they saw that, for Genesis 6 was a ways after their death, yet at some point the demons felt the human race was at their disposal for their new addiction to fleshly being (Jude6; Gen6).
(Genesis 6:1-2) . . .Now it came about that when men started to grow in numbers on the surface of the ground and daughters were born to them, 2 then the sons of the [true] God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose.
We know the above “sons of the true God” were angels, because just the fact “men grew in numbers”, human men already had the attraction to women, hence the numbers growing, these demons had an unnatural development in this case, that is why it is noted before the Nephilim and the violence as Genesis 6 progresses, God is showing the influence that was present at that time that led to a catastrophic cleansing of the flood.
(Jude 6) . . .And the angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place he has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.
But in any event the slavery of mankind as sport kills and slaves o demons, with women as super-human incubators was well founded. So these demons are the true root of the various “human” addictions we see today, and obsession with ever intensifying depravity in sex fusing with violence and human sacrifice to these devil inspired demon addicts.
So after that for the interim between the flood and the Mosaic covenant, demons ran the place completely unhindered except for the men like Abraham and Job and others who worshipped Jehovah alone, but these had no organization to become a basis to also reach others. The Jewish nation became that for the nation, though others were of course influenced, such as the experiences of Pharaoh’s demise had an impact for years throughout the regions. (A mixed crowd left Egypt)
But the Jews had a “wall”, the Law, they were not a public ministry though known publically. The prophets though did preach to other nations, they intensively were sent, like Jesus was later, to their own house of God to give reminders, warnings, encouragement, etc.
Then of course Jesus Christ blew the whole thing wide open. Yes he is the one who has “broken up the works of the Devil” by exposing the whole story, he uses the truth to conquer Satan in this phase. But up till that time, Satan was pretty much in free reign as far as the deception over the majority of mankind, and that remains, but not without a witness to the actual truth.
The Truth Progressively Founded and Cannot be Removed Now – Over time…
What I am saying is Satan has been killing the truth for millenniums before Jesus arrived. And yes his “whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one” is effective, he NO LONGER can suppress the truth, it cannot be burned or erased from existence.
So Satan can only attempt to discredit the one truth, with many others “truths” by mixing, matching, twisting and adding many human ideas from philosophy, that in the end are that “cannot be sharing with the table of Jehovah and the table of demons” that Paul warned about by these kinds of “truths”. And I don’t mean the truth of the background story of man, I mean the spiritual truth of what the ministry is about, developing faith in God, his son, and that sacrificial reality, aided greatly by repentance, aiding greatly by “accurate knowledge”, which begins to produce righteous fruit as Jesus said, to the point of a vow to God Jehovah through Jesus Christ, baptism, and depending on destiny in either event entry into the tests and trials of gaining the kingdom, or entry into the tests and temptations as well even to enter the Kingdom courtyard of paradise earth – the whole goal in two powers, heaven’s God will first, then earth must also have God’s will done on it. The entire reversal of where this story began when the Liar attempted to over-ride God’s will completely on earth, by also disrupting a 1/3 of the heavenly family in those demons who now “carry on a lie”. But the heaven element is NOT systemic and terminal, the human realm is terminally, systemically, and systematically imbibed with death, that cascades into the entire earthly creation in one way or another, in any form unacceptable to God’s perfect specification that the planet, man and animals and all supports will be brought back into.
Now no one is going to learn even that above paragraph of the outline of truth at any Christendom church. They may have mixes, this that, but ALWAYS they have a misleading lack of awareness to achieve that complete acceptable repentance and overall true theme of the bible. The spiritual discernment is given in a complete accurate knowledge from the bible by spirit of truth, not static millennium long error, as God’s will, for enough is known to be saved to respond with “all earnest effort”, and development of ever stronger faith, and the being “no part of the world” to the full of our alien residency in this temporary world system of error, that John plainly stated is “passing away and so is it’s desire, but he who does the will of God remains forever”. Even the earthly class that applies to, they too seek the New Jerusalem that must “come down” from heaven, so we need that disconnection from this world to be a goal, the belief that it truly is passing on to nowhere in divine timing.
So that will must be accurately known, it is not a catatonic complacency like the churches, or the trust in human power and ability like the secular things which are hubbed on survival and materialism. So yes God has provided blessing for righteous and unrighteous to have a good life by practicing good and we have a naturally created by God conscience, but for some of us, we are brought in like the apostles who exemplified Jesus in “all earnest effort” to do the full will of God, to the death if necessary – in spite of imperfection. Also a thing, the sins, well covered by Jesus Christ’s mission.
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So the apostles had an inspired ministry, which the Christendom system slowly diluted to totally missing God’s will, and actually teaching easily demonstrated, though thoroughly imbibed, diametric truths. Such as Jesus being a worshipper of himself, “God”, in a trinity. Death not being death at all as just penalty of God, but instead a change to a true state of eternal life the immortal soul, and of course the perversion of justice into a sado-masochistic torture fest of all eternity to match, hell-fire. These are all completely opposite to the truth, anti-christ teachings, and they do not end there, now God is emptying earth to fill heaven and hell, the complete unchangeable will of God at Gen1:27-28 is obliterated by human teaching, but obviously inspired by demons who know how to bury truth in just a few lifetimes of humans.
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So no need for God in that interim of 300CE to 1900CE to try to develop a lasting truth in mankind as a system. Even the Jehovah’s witnesses Christian ministry, like the first century ministry of the apostles, will be brief in retrospect, because it is very difficult to keep people on the same track, as was shown when the 100% of the apostles, all in the bible, has been polluted by the churches to complete anti-christian teachings, all in 1700 approx, it did not get better, it has matured to ripe grapes, it has gotten far worse. Same with Noah’s generation from Abel onward to him, it did not get better, it got worse and worse as Gen6:13 says the earth became filled with violence, and God decreed a cleansing. So today, society will follow the general course of Adam’s offspring in any context, it goes progressively from bad to worse, inspite of generations born into the worse, who make it worse, claiming it is the best it’s ever beel! LOL – No it is not, it is deceptive is what it is, God shows symbolically in Revelations 7 trumpets and 7 bowls that all the world system has been judged like imperfection cubed, 666, very hard to escape the taint of the wildbeast systems all over the earth, ascribing divine rights over lives, to mere mortal sinner men – regardless of their riches and 6000 dollar suits, Jehovah sees the pirates that are really running the place, and there leading powers come from the top world rulers, and those are demons. We fully know this hierachy exists, and that demons are not going to portray it but with glam, but it leaves carnage in ot’s wake. It looks all adored and honored in the “white” house outside of the cup, but they leave millions of rotting dead children and filth in the places they destroy for unjust profit, and unjust power addiction. Those are demon inspired atrocities which also give human sacrifice on a whole earth they consider their altar to Satan. So these are great blasphemies that go on behind the glamorous facades and personality veneers orchestrated by demonic influence, as Jesus said they are like white washed graves, under it all is ever sort of wickedness, greed, destruction and plunder.
So we know eventually God is going to react, not a little, but his vengeance on the thing which has 4000 years of divine justice coming will be global and heavens, he will wipe out the demons to POW abyss, and all their founded system and those in their power on earth, a total house cleaning commensurate with the magnitude of the bible’s clear warnings that God is not forever going to tolerate a wicked carnival on earth and in the demon realms, he must end it for the survival of the planet and the chosen ones that will be in a “great crowd” to witness it all for future reference and to be the first in the next system, that was last in this system as the founding beginning by God of the “new earth” social flock led by Jesus Christ
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The 144000 Had to Understand Their own Meaning then the Rest Followed as in Revelation 7’s Progression as Well
Because this leads into the Rev7 reality as shown in Revelation 7, the 144000 are first in that order of Rev7:-9, and in God’s as well, the anointed remnant was going to be the one to ascertain themselves, that is the true meaning of the 144000 for the Kingdom. Many knew since Jesus time they could press forward for the heavenly call, but they did NOT know much beyond that, and even John did not write that down until near the end of his own ministry as God gave Jesus Christ the Revelation to deliver by the angel, to John FOR the “congregation” of the 144000 first, the progressive number since that time, for the “other sheep” as that opened up, and for all mankind to be able to read and be drawn to God.
So it is fitting that these who realized themselves in the 144000 meaning, also after ascertained the “great crowd” where “other sheep” who are alive and survive the GT. Since many “other sheep” have existed from long ago in faith in Jesus, that small number of the “little flock” has been present until this final batch, to the 144000th sealed one. GT will not fully begin, until that 144000th one is sealed, then the four winds can be let loose. So God knew that a short ministry, like the first century, was realistic given the state of Adamic man by this time, and obviously even in the time of the apostles, Paul said the work of the apostate anti-christs was underway, and John said there are many anti-christs, it was a massive campaign by Satan to bury the truth, and turn the Christian house into a war tribal labeling complex of political meddlers since the days of the pope’s bringing great blood-guilt on may professed “Christians” in the process. Obviously a crafty and evil centuries long maneuvering of lies by satan, the weeds being the “sons of the Devil” over years and years of Euro war to world wars.
So that we don’t take for granted that the exposing of this was a miracle of God through imperfect men in the manner of the first century ministry as far as telling truths that revealed actualities. This though involving the anointed, and all with the “faith of Jesus Christ”, IS ABOUT GOD FOREMOST, because he had to back this into a global revealing. There was a time when Jehovah’s witnesses, any Christian telling the truth, was destroyed by these weeds, these weeds had the place inundated. So this ministry is the result first of God’s will that a full warning be given, and also human kingdom putting the reigns on the Papal power to destroy at will, like they ran the place even to the 17th century, it was in the 19th century the last inquisitions were outlawed, even Isaac Newton had to walk on egg shells when he spoke against the Trinity.
Eventually the “earth” is what came to the “woman’s” aid, it took secular powers to tell the church system, “hey!” why so barbaric? Leave the barbarism to the wildbeast, hop on board there Babylon, LOL. But actually Babylon the Great, as Christendom is a part of it, has been riding that wildbeast aiding it as the papacy shows in many ways as a part of the leaven we are talking about since Pharaoh’s day, and the embryo at Babel was born of these devil priesthoods and warlords in a collusion over the people.
So really, the 1900’s was the true opportunity God knew would occur, for the final opening of the bible, especially Daniel “in the time of the end”, and Revelation “in the Lord’s day” were slated for revealing in the last days, and really as you said once, the “last days of the last days” the conclusion of the system of things. And it shows as with Noah, a 100 approx ministry took place as noted in Gen6, the apostles were a 100 year approx ministry, and this last one will end up being also a hundred years of a final ministry that had a great progressive opening in great detail of the whole bible regarding what God wants us to know at this time, as Rev1:1 stated:
(Revelation 1:1) . . .A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. . . .
So firstly it is for the slaves or servants of God, and in this period it is the last of the remnant and all who can develop acceptable faith, and many can and will and have to join in whatever way they can “in all earnest effort” to have a say in it to others as well, for others to be saved, but also to serve notice on the Devil and his world, because Satan receives plague as well, his own throne in the fifth bowl, is exposed as the world foundation of human rulership.
We can’t take for granted all these truths like you and I can discuss. Just 100 years ago many of these things had been mysteries for 1800 years, and all that time it got no enlightenment, but only darker, which proves God had to be the one, with the “fire of the rifiner and lye of the laundryman” concerning the cleansing Christ would bring about at the “temple” visitation of Mal3. It is very important to realize these last 100 years have been revolutionary in change and enlightenment from both Jehovah and Satan, and both forms of influence have changed the world. Many people do not grasp a millenniums of total darkness, that would have been fine with satan to go on forever here, but instead his “works” have been broken up by revealing his lies and true motives, as well as God’s truth, and true will.
Plus realistically there has to be a gradient, the truth itself gradually got denser, and around it, just like the apostles around Jesus with faith, it dispersed to many disciples, they dispersed to many peoples nations and tognues, and in that witness to the world, some became believers, as Jude said have mercy on those who have doubts and keep speaking to them, that gradation of the truth goes out till eventually you have those misled to completely not believe it, others fight it, and so Satan’s seed of course is never going to accept Jesus word, but the whole world is between the “faiths” of those two seeds, those with faiht strong in Jehovah at the epicenter, and likewise some people have a string faith in Satan, the middle ground is generally as John said, he misleads the whole world in the majority of humans past and present, but not future for very much longer. So the natural mix is that a small number had to be dispersed in 144000, not to say that in that 1900+ ingathering a great many were not brought in, just to say they were worldwide, and they affected others around them, and those they affected, and so on.
It’s also realistic that we see it with the development of the chosen people for the old covenant. They were in certain lineage of David to be a conduit for Jesus. They had a covenant as one nation, yet this is about a whole world back to Abel. So they were “cast off” until the full number of the nations is filled, and by that broken old covenant which Jesus alone kept perfectly (and received all reward by performance, not underserved kindness – though he relied fully on God who delivered him through all trial and test), but that covenant gave way to a new one.
That 144000 are not just former fleshly Jews like the apostles and disciples in that first ministry with an occasional gentile mixed in good number, but the ministry was first to the Jews, then Jesus in his assistance after his death to the apostles, broke the whole thing wide open to the nations, and from “among the nations” he completes the 144000.
And we might as well figure out they will be intimately involved aiding Jesus as he is becoming Last Adam Eternal Father of mankind to transition out of Adam by divine powers beyond human and even angelic understanding, and that can’t be limited to a single national group, we are talking divine things perfected in Jesus and the 144000, that 144000 are in Last Adam’s pattern as spirit brothers will carry that power for the earthly creation to restore a whole world since Abel, Adam (being removed) and replaced by Last Adamic human perfection even fathers Abel again (in whatever way, not saying this is linear, just that a whole human race is being restored.
So it is fitting these are from the perfect mix of mankind for whatever reason Jehovah has chosen, not that they are dependent on old Adamic “nations” but they are sampled from them because those “nations of the earth”; Gen22, must be re-created so to speak; Matt19:28, into this Last Adamic perfect super race, super as it is superior to Adamic mankind, yet human. Yet of course Jesus Christ carried far far more powerful ability than he displayed, he surrendered himself willingly to get that blood and body into Jehovah’s rightful possession as sinless sacrificial offering to God, it was a challenge yes, but it was the needed link to life that Adam broke. These “12 tribes” of heaven will divinely placed through the human global families as those king-priests, so it makes sense they were extracted from the things they will be restoring, just as Jesus was taken from the world, though perfect and from Heaven, that he also will be the biggest link in the chain of life in restoring to the very former Adamic “founding of the world”.
What I’d like to point out too, the human call in Jesus Christ’s eventual Last Adam human form is nothing to consider second class, he was a being far more advanced spiritually, intellectually, and physically than is shown in the bible totally, yet a man gleaming like the sun is obvious, this perfection is far beyond what we see in humans today, he walked on water, he calmed storms, raised the dead, pulled more than most restaurants have for a month, to feed thousands from a small bag with a few fishes and bread, and many more things he did in healing and discerning intent of others.
So the human destiny is into a great human being in the fullness of divine created perfection, in the likeness of what Adam lost. That body is not to be despised as some who are in the heaven power trip try to do and call the “other sheep” second class, when all it is is a physical form, nothing second class about Jesus Christ the man as in something to become an issue for human ego. That body perfect is capable of eternities of development, as Adam’s was, and we can’t despise something we have barely got a glimpse of in Jesus Christ. It will be a great thing to the Almighty “good” seal of approval, God does not mess around when he creates all his activity is perfect, so no one can judge as unworthy things God will restore to a great, eternal purpose just by the fact he made it with everlasting life blessing, and endless knowledge and ability in Himself as Almighty to have plenty plenty more in store for faithful humans than what this poor world thinks is glory – it is nothing compared to true perfection as God’s superior physical or material earth realm creation.
So this is why it had to open in God’s time. Even Jesus visited twice to the temple and the final time on earth in Jerusalem was as King designate accepted by many but rejected by the people, and he did do a cleansing. At his heavenly power inauguration he also did the same thing which is obvious to some now, rejected by many. And that delivered the final temple stones in heaven, to fulfill the completion at death of the 144000 in the eventuality that this “time of the end” which was to have the prophecies unsealed, for God’s FULL visitation to the earth’s “temple of the God” which will really encompass all “houses” claiming God, and especially his own house, the final rejection of Christendom, but we have to be real here, he will also inspect the whole earth population and Jehovah’s witnesses to complete the “great crowd” as well, and to found at whatever time in God’s will, the completed Kingdom authority of the 144000 with Jesus Christ over earth. So that last earth visit, will also be a cleansing continued, for the “great crowd” are delivered and continued in the shepherding to “waters of life”, for now Satan’s “waters of death” on earth will be removed, as Adam will be progressively the main human fountain. So Malachi 3, leads to the finality of Malachi 4, and that Kingdom is never leaving from the time of it’s full crashing blow at Armageddon fulfilling many prophecies and that notable Daniel 2 Kingdom stone Mountain to “fill the earth with the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters themselves cover the sea” Hab2:12.
Wanted to preface the above for what follows, thanks.
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1)He says all the righteous take part in the 1st resurrection. That the Bible does not make any distinction between some righteous(144000) and some other righteous. All are called saints.
By the way, a JW had told me in the past that back then , the only hope was heavenly life. There was a call towards all the christians. So does the Bible addresses just one group of saints? If that is true, then is the distinction between heavenly and earthly hope just a later speculation without biblical support?
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The anointed since the apostles had not had that 144000 meaning fully clarified – at least not for a global ministry’s proclamation, though many speculations of course abounded in the intervening 1700 years approx. What this means I believe is since the apostles time, there have been a mix of anointed “little flock”, earth destined “other sheep”, and the rest (in apostate Christendom and world) who in the resurrection of the unrighteous (or what God determines to be righteous), since I am talking about those who never truly developed repentance as Christians due to lack of knowledge and poor or evil shepherds, as today’s Christians have been well coached by the bible to make the goal in daily life day after day, and Peter says the “righteous one is being saved with difficulty:
(1 Peter 4:17-19) . . .For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the end be of those who are not obedient to the good news of God? 18 “And if the righteous [man] is being saved with difficulty, where will the ungodly [man] and the sinner make a showing?” 19 So, then, also let those who are suffering in harmony with the will of God keep on commending their souls to a faithful Creator while they are doing good.
But all things are possible with God and faith, so the blood is not the difficulty in it’s power, it’s our wayward Adamic inclinations that pose the difficulty to repent and keep the attainment to repentance:
(2 Peter 3:9) . . .Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.
Unfortunately Christendom was truly a den of demons, and that had an impact on many people dragged into the intrigues of Euro war for 1000 years approx. There are those of course who were wicked to the possibility of “everlasting sin”, which is God’s judgment not a human thing of course, and these I believe are part of the seed of Satan, as Jesus described in the parable of the wheat and weeds that the weeds are sown by Satan, called the sons of the wicked one, (Matt 13:36-43), so these in that danger have to have an accurate knowledge of truth at that time and today, such as some of the Pharisees Jesus described as children of Satan, John8:44, revealed by their desire to murder those who threatened their beliefs and position.
But believe it or not, the resurrection of the unrighteous is no bad deal. Since Acts 17:30 shows:
(Acts 17:30-31) . . .True, God has overlooked the times of such ignorance, yet now he is telling mankind that they should all everywhere repent. 31 Because he has set a day in which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has furnished a guarantee to all men in that he has resurrected him from the dead.”
We have to be realistic that this resurrection of “unrighteous” may merely mean those in ignorance as well as those who were unrighteous but not incorruptibly wicked:
(Psalm 1:5) . . .That is why the wicked ones will not stand up in the judgment,. . .
Realistically as well, Jesus identified the “other sheep” even to his apostles, as many claimed that was the gentiles, the apostles understood otherwise, since Gentiles were clearly identified in Peter’s aid given to Cornelius, and also Paul’s various statements where the Gentiles being gathered in those with faith fulfilling Joel and other prophets. So in numerous occasions the “other sheep” could have been identified as Gentiles, but as Paul shows here they new these were not in the Kingdom new covenant:
(1 Corinthians 11:27-32) . . .Consequently whoever eats the loaf or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will be guilty respecting the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 First let a man approve himself after scrutiny, and thus let him eat of the loaf and drink of the cup. 29 For he that eats and drinks eats and drinks judgment against himself if he does not discern the body. 30 That is why many among YOU are weak and sickly, and quite a few are sleeping [in death]. 31 But if we would discern what we ourselves are, we would not be judged. 32 However, when we are judged, we are disciplined by Jehovah, that we may not become condemned with the world.
So he shows that some were consistently partaking, and were suffering because of it, so he warned them to do a personal thorough discernment. Yet in verse 32 he did not consider these condemned “with the world”, they were being “disciplined”, and upon discontinuing an unworthy partaking they were still Christian as they all were, they just recognized the distinction of covenanted and non-covenanted is what the scripture shows. And even those in verse 30, “sleeping in death”, will not be in the general condemned world resurrection, but in the righteous apparently since Paul does make the statement ” when we are judged, we are disciplined by Jehovah, that we may not become condemned with the world”. And since Christ is also purchaser of that condemned world, as a propitiatory sacrifice it is also noted to have a distinction in who it applies to as a two groups:
(1 John 2:2) . . .And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins (144000), yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s.
Though that was written by John, an anointed one, so it does apply to them primarily, the “our sins” can also apply to earthling Christians considered righteous by God also by extension, since they are “no part of the world”, yet Jesus has bought the whole world, the human race, to those even in “unrighteous” condition:
(Matthew 12:31-32) . . .“On this account I say to YOU, Every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven. 32 For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come.
This is why I do not believe there was ever an “exclusive” call in Christianity, we have to be realistic, the 144000 is a small number, really a “little flock”, and they influenced people throughout time in their own way to become in a faithful relationship with God through Christ. And we have the general mix of humanity as well, people who never heard anything about any of this, yet Christ has purchased them as well. And of course the Cains of the world and Nimrods etc, who God will determine the wickedness of, for humans can’t really see the heart.
So, it’s going to be quite the resurrection in any event, God understands the state mankind was born into, in days of lack of knowledge it would take very constant wickedness to be judged wicked by God, and of course this would typify Satan’s seed in humans to which there is no real reason to resurrect them, but that is God’s decision and knowledge of who those were or are.
Sorry this seems long, but it is important I believe to understand that God is trying to save people, LOL, not judge us unworthy according to human ideas of justice. The resurrection back to life is a great gift, God is not bringing back “unrighteous” or “righteous” but with a hope for everlasting life. Actually the “unrighteous” is were God is actually showing the truest meaning of love, as Jesus said when we love those not loving us:
(Matthew 5:44-48) . . .However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU; 45 that YOU may prove yourselves sons of YOUR Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. 46 For if YOU love those loving YOU, what reward do YOU have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? 47 And if YOU greet YOUR brothers only, what extraordinary thing are YOU doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? 48 YOU must accordingly be perfect, as YOUR heavenly Father is perfect.
So Jehovah’s love is perfect, and he will be exercising that upon the righteous and the unrighteous, but life, everlasting life, not death is His purpose by faithful freewill..
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On God’s Justice and “Judgment”
1. First off these unrighteous people died. The penalty of sin is death. God’s justice has already been served, that is the sentence, death. That death would have been eternal, the payment was the life; Justice of God’s, as in Eden, dust to dust, is done. Jesus provides a life correspondingly to allow dead Adamic offspring, who are of course born into this, to be saved from the grave, one, but also from having to ever repeat death again, the “second death”, two. Jesus will be giving all power and effort under his Kingdom to restore even the worst case scenario to be found in that resurrection of the unrighteous to everlasting life by guiding them, like the “great crowd” as well, and the righteous resurrected as well to “waters of life”. All humanity in that resurrection, or as GT survivors of course will be guided to life, not death; Rev22:1-3. No need to render penalty again, for past sins, so “judgment” will be an evaluation of course of the behavior from then on for potentially 1000 years to the perfecting that must precede Satan’s final temptation of a perfect Last Adamic (Christ) human race.
2. I say this also because many humans have totally lost the concept of God’s justice. Ok, they died, they paid up, life gone, dust they are. Now why in God’s name, LOL, is Jehovah going to penalize tem some more? LOL.
See what I mean?, sorry to laugh, but it’s ridiculous. God is not unjust so as to exact a penalty phase TWICE as in condemnation for the same sin. And especially not a burning-hell condemnation were justice is NEVER served but in recurring endless payments, and these live forever as a “penalty”, when the penalty is already shown to be death. Nothing is legal even in some human logic of justice, to exact yet another penalty, get this: FOREVER – even more ridiculous.
What will be condemned, is the former ways of Adam, in that no way is God resurrecting people to continue in Adam’s ways after these great provisions are provided to bring man out of sin into Last Adam. That is what the “everlasting abhorrence” or “everlasting contempt” means, repentance is abhorring PAST behavior, and these who do turn around with the great opportunity for the first time out of Adam to true life in Jesus Christ Last Adam will themselves abhor their past lives, we all do if we repent and get the true meaning of leaving the past sinful practices totally in the dead past.
Likewise, we see already some are not going to be resurrected. So when God is truly done with a wicked person, the ones “blotted out from the book of life”, he does NOT resurrect them, he leaves them in the eternal death penalty, the final justice that Adam entered. Jesus sacrifice does not cover Adam’s sin, it covers Adamic sin that he passed into his offspring, humans that did not transgress in his freewill manner, they never have been perfect as Adam was:
(Romans 5:14) . . .Nevertheless, death ruled as king from Adam down to Moses, even over those who had not sinned after the likeness of the transgression by Adam, who bears a resemblance to him that was to come.
This is what Jesus Christ as the Last Adam human means, he must replace Adam by divine power in the human race through that same Christ who is now in a life giving position:
(1 Corinthians 15:45) . . .It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
(1 Corinthians 15:22) . . .For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.
(1 Corinthians 15:47-49) . . .The first man is out of the earth and made of dust; the second man is out of heaven. 48 As the one made of dust [is], so those made of dust [are] also; and as the heavenly one [is], so those who are heavenly [are] also. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one.
Of course that heavenly one NOW was a perfect man THEN, and without that perfect man which God did provide from heaven as a gift to humans, as a human being, the Adamic race would have no linkage to life. That is why Jehovah’s “passover” Lamb, was a foregleam NOT of a sin offering as the later atonement was the sin offering in Israel, but a “sacrifice to Jehovah” to be consumed by the people – Jehovah received as gift sacrifice all the power of human perfection in that man Jesus, the new man Last Adam.
Both classes of heaven and earth will eventually “partake” of him fully – heavenly first, earthly last..
The heavenly class first in symbol (bread and wine), but they actually partake of his spirit ACTUAL power and body as brothers and heirs with him of the promise of the blessing (Gen22:17), so that the earthling class can also “partake” IN THE 1000 YEAR REIGN – as Jesus/144000 aids in the removal of sin, to perfection, no death, full blessing Gen1:27-28, which Jesus obtained former Adamic rights to, because Jesus Christ remained in “God’s image” as a man perfect, and that “image” in Gen1:27 is what Jesus restores to mankind.
One BOTH classes needed the atonement blood for forgiveness of sins, BUT the earthlings can actually become that “bread out of heaven” during the 1000 year (re-creation; Matt19:28), they can be transformed by divine power into the Last Adam “image”, because Jesus must also be called, Eternal Father (Isa9) replacing Dead Father Adam.
(Also note that the Atonement day sacrifice is the “forgiveness” sacrifice, ONLY blood, the body was NOT eaten by the priests or nation. That is the blood of the forgiveness of mankind. The Passover which preceded that sacrificial priesthood in Israel, is NOT a sin offering, but first to Jehovah, the blood of the lamb delivered the first born and whole nation by extension out of Egypt in faith, and at the Last Passover with Jesus as back then (old covenant), it delivered to the inaugurated the new covenant, YET of course Jesus Christ’s blood and body sacrifice pictures BOTH Passover AND the Atonement sacrifices, in one single event. Blood of the covenant, and blood of atonement, AND a perfect body)
(1 Corinthians 5:7-8) . . .For, indeed, Christ our passover has been sacrificed. 8 Consequently let us keep the festival, not with old leaven, neither with leaven of badness and wickedness, but with unfermented cakes of sincerity and truth.
So “unfermented bread”, “sinless body” is the goal.
I believe these great details in God’s word are for true reasons, that mankind of course is not being scrapped, because Satan and sinner humans in Adam and Eve decided to scrap God’s will.
BUT BUT BUT…
This is where I think the biggest misconception lies:
See, notice these definitions of judgement, they are a process leading to a decision, an ability, a time period of assessment, NOT a finality:
judgement – the cognitive process of reaching a decision or drawing conclusions
judgement – the act of judging or assessing a person or situation or event; “they criticized my judgment of the contestants”
judgement – the capacity to assess situations or circumstances shrewdly and to draw sound conclusions
Then there is this static done deal legal definition of a judged done judgment:
judgement – (law) the determination by a court of competent jurisdiction on matters submitted to it.
Excuse my emphasis, it is meant with a big smile on my face it is so good and also funny when seen properly.
So what people are mistakenly doing in this misapprehension is assuming:
1. that judgement means AUTOMATICALLY adverse penalty.
That to some people, that word “judgment” is ALWAYS meaning condemnation. That this is a static, predetermined judgment, period, gavel slammed BEFORE they were even resurrected to hear it LOL – even though: “hey I already died, give me a break man!”, off to hell-fire they go, LOL. So,
2. People are being mentally influenced to already have judged these people by assumption of a misapplied definition, because that is how they are reading the very word “judgement” in a static defined way, BUT given the context of the 1000 year Judgement Day it does not apply in that way, this is a process, an evaluation, a program for life, a program for perfection over 1000 years time. This is far from static, it is a great 1000 year transition out of Adam, into Last Adam.
IN FACT, Thank God, NO DECISIONS HAVE BEEN MADE YET! LOL.
That is the very meaning of letting The All Knowing Almighty God empower an infallible Kingdom full of perfect love, wisdom, justice AND mercy, FORMER SINNERS 144000 OF THEM! To actually PERFECTLY assess ALL THE POTENTIAL ways to SAVE PEOPLE, JESUS CHRIST! THE KING DIED FOR US, HE DIED FOR THESE PEOPLE!, He paid a HUGE price, of course this Righteous King is going to FIND EVERY WAY POSSIBLE TO GET WHAT HE PAID FOR, NOT DEATH, BUT LIFE – NOT JUST LIFE, EVERLASTING LIFE!!!
See, When we have a JUDGE WHO ALREADY DIED FOR US, we have an advantage in court!!, ESPECIALLY WHEN HE IS ALSO OUR LAWYER, LOL LOL LOL. AND HE PAID ALL THE FINES!!! HE TOOK THE DEATH PENALTY! Why send them to the guillotine? LOL, No every opportunity will be give humans to live, the whole point of Jesus’ death, life. And an advantageous surrounding environment and righteous wise and powerful, loving and merciful governmental heavenly power to oversee the entire earthly progress and restoration to the detail.
Really, life in this “free” world is not as good as that day in court.
LOL, See what I mean? Judgement Day is the best day of any human’s life, as far as opportunity and justice by CAPABLE JUDGES! LOL. Of course for people hell-bent on sin and the past, it is a condemnation AFTER a period of perfect opportunity and assessment of ALL the details and extenuating circumstances to atoms in the heart, and neurons in the brain, EVERY chance will be given mankind in this resurrection and judgment.
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2) And the second thing he claims is that the unrighteous are the ones of the second resurrection. Theres no righteous man in the second resurrection. He then provides the verses I cited in the previous message. Daniel 12 etc
I told him that this sounds strange. God resurrecting people just to destroy them again instantly. Lol. But he says that this is what the Bible says, the judgement. See the 3 verses. So what can I say to him about these verses? For example the 1st says
Daniel
12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Is this a proof of instant judgement after the resurrections?
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Lol, Ben generally claims he does not put his own ideas, but strictly believes what the Scriptures say. I mean, he does not allow any open interpretation. I think the right is the middle. Not going far away from the text, but also understanding things that are not directly mentioned in the Bible(by comparing and multiplying verses)
Thanks for your precious help
Your completely welcome, thanks for the opportunity.
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Well, this one, the earthly resurrection is sometimes harder to convince people of. 1, it seems many want to be judges (they are stuck in that I’m going to heaven to be in the front row of hell-fire proceedings), they don’t catch on to the justice and yet mercy of it all, and 2, the big mad rush to all be angels in heaven has basically been ironed into peoples heads, and 3, it is then re-ironed into people’s heads in some cases by the hell-fire cattle prod, where any fool on earth will pick heaven, when hell-fire is the only other option. It itself is a strange psychological coercion job.
But here is the diversion. We do have a God to fear, not morbid fear, but the reality that death is the penalty for continuing in a sinful course, we have to give “all earnest effort”, and we won’t be perfect yet, God is realistic he wants a change of heart towards developing a solid repentance from the past ways. So these guys don’t even believe death is a true reality, it’s just a change of state to immortal life in heaven or hell. Yet the world judgment at Armageddon, called in Joel 3:9 the “low plain of the decision” is also an assessment, the judgment will as always be good or bad, depending on our own repentance and faith in that provided undeserved kindness on the value of that sacrifice in God’s eyes, thet we have faith it can cover us, a faith strengthened by a good conscience.
So these misled ones are trained to fear the wrong things, not see the real judgement that is coming, and of course not even appreciate the finality of death. Very strange re-direction of logic to serve actually an un-enlightened state of what is actually reality.
So the big twisto that Satan pulled here was swapping destinations as well, where the earthly restoration destination, is all of a sudden the hell-fire destination.
So here is Jesus Christ, emptying earth, filling heaven and hell.
When in fact, he is emptying hell, and filling earth with those former dead people.
So yes we have two resurrections, the first one to a state not even in danger of “second death”:
(Revelation 20:6) . . .Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.
But then what is the use of priests? Heaven is sinless, no need for a priestly legal service between them and God. And in one scenario everyone else is judged already in hell-fire, that what are these priests? The guys who turn up the flames on the spitfire of condemnation? No. Makes no sense.
And then why priests in this perfect Kingdom scenario? To forever apply a sacrificial blood forgiveness so people can sin forever more? Then why repentance? Why “and the Lamb will shepherd them to waters of life”, and the “river of the waters of life”, “with trees” for “the curing of the NATIONS”. (Rev22:1-3)
So that is why that Gen1:27-28 earth/man blessing lost to curse is an important thing in the bible (regarding God’s unchangeable will for the earth), because that sin that led to the death curse in Gen3, is quickly tied by God to the solution of the “seed” of Gen3:15, and from their the main super clue of the bible, the “seed” unfolds all the way to the seed Jesus Christ and his sacrificial gateway out of this Adamic mess, the earth is great with no sin and demons, no one would leave if they did not have to die. Had Adam not sinned it would not be a systemic curse, but both went into it, had they not, they would still be here upon continued obedience.
So the humans will need priests, yet for the ones these various Christendom influenced people already consigned to condemnation a second time, why priests? Again the work of a priesthood seems futile then. Why kings? Why rule an unruly mob like Satan is now? So there just has to be first off a little more than casual bible dipping a few times, people do have to study things throughout to make sense of debunking the Christendom errors, and general mayhem of philosophers all over the place saying this and that about the bible. And second the basic theme has to be clear, God’s Kingdom to restore his Sovereign rule, and sanctify his name and that removal of the curse by the blessing provided by Jesus Christ’s sacrifice, God’s will done on earth, as in heaven by that King, has to be understood. So that will of God in Gen1:27-28 has to be respected as important, which unfortunately if not by the heaven stampede, the hell-fire misinformation or the predetermined judgment there, the will of God clearly pointed out within 28 verses of the bible is obscured for human ideas.
It’s hard to deprogram people to the fact the first 3 chapters of the bible are the stage in which the rest unfolds. The blessing is identified in Gen1:27-28, and that lost “in God’s image” to sin and the death which is the curse. Then quickly the hope is mentioned as a righteous seed to stomp the serpent’s head, and that serpent also received in fact the first mentioned curse, he was first.
But from their the seed is revisited WITH the blessing at Gen12 and Gen22, and from there on in it starts to get even more interesting as that seed goes through Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and they are all recorded in the bible as also having the blessing mentioned to them (Gen26:3-5; Gen28:13,14), and onto the 12 tribes, David, etc to Jesus Christ arriving as Mal3 foretold.
But many are not clued into by the mainstream, that the whole purpose of that seed and blessing through Christ was from great issue raised in Eden, more than just the sin, God’s name as becomer, and causer, God’s will was challenged respecting earth and man, and he was called a selfish liar, and his Sovereign Rule was challenged on earth in part, but that great part on earth raised also by man, must be settled on earth with a man, Jesus Christ taking the lead role in restoring God’s image, which will be the sinlessness that is deathless, and the blessing restored.
Instead it has become a linear trip to heaven for many in the delusions, not the full circle which heaven is part of, but Rev21 and 22 lead right back to Gen 1:27-28. It’s a divine loop back to perfection, along with a new spirit power Kingdom to get rid of the Devil and the Adamic folly of the empires of man as we have seen them for 4000 plus years.
So we do have two resurrections heavenly and earthly, and the earthly component has two classes righteous and unrighteous, and the goal will be everlasting life on earth, as in heaven.
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