Q: But now you have pointed out the scriptures relating to the “great crowd” it has raised another question. The scriptures in Rev 7 describe the “great crowd” as “out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues”
Can this still mean we can leave out entire countries? Does this description mean a total representation from among all mankind . . . or something else? How should we interpret out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues?
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First off the word “all”. And the meanings of those words relating to human biological and societal organization in various ways even beyond our understanding as to every actual detail of where people come from and who they actually are in God’s knowledge over time. Then too, there is the the foursquare (4 human system descriptions), an earthly complete symbology like (N,S,E,W) the full earthly dimensional directions as a symbol not in absolute terms, in other words it will be complete according to God’s purpose objective at that time, which is always perfect for reasons ascertained later.
The words ‘nations’, ‘tribes’, ‘peoples’ and ‘tongues’ is 4 square also in detail of humanity, so it will mean full earthly physical coverage in some respects of anything in the human system relating to the creation of man onwards through the 70 nations in the Table of Nations in Genesis 10.
http://www.soundchristian.com/man/
As we know the way we have defined nations today such as France and Russia for example, is in no way inclusive of all the tribes which made up those nations in their histories of just 1000 years ago, much less their actual relations back in time to Ham, Shem and Japheth, and the 70 Fathers of nations which sprang from them, into today’s various national containers, and often complete generalities.
The above link has interesting evidence of how the gene mapping types also overlay that Genesis table of nations. Every nation of man by fact, tradition, or strange relationships ties back to the table of 70 nations in Genesis in some way, though some have disappeared since there original labels. Due to inter-marriage, conquest, and migration, all of those nations have apparently retained a representative in earth today in ways very deep and beyond human complete understanding. I find that very amazing coming from a book supposedly composed of fairy tales. Genesis is the deepest schematic book on earth as to human origins and current issues facing mankind as to their origin in Eden.
(The other interesting overlay on the 70 nations of Genesis is language, it also perfectly relates to the human fractal grenade effect at the Tower of Bable’s confusion of the tingues at the opportune time in the development of the human systems at that time, like language pertaining to sciences/math, religion, and human histories; they all have a relaitve thread of various relating patterns, though differing, they have common characteristics which have been handed down throughout this timeline)
The 7 in the 70 nations is a number of spiritual completeness so for whatever reason it relates to 7 sets of 10, ten being a common human number for basing magnitude, since it conveniently relates to 10 digits of the hand. So the numbers God determines for men, have meaning beyond just the number.
God will be the one determining the foundational structure of the next perfect system to be according to the original will of God as it progresses. He gives a complete picture of the Great Crowd’s complete relation to everything human since the creation back to Noah’s sons, and Noah. The 144,000 also show a relationship to this perfect composition from the sons of man regardless of their destined purpose:
***(Revelation 14:4) . . .These (144000) were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. . .
(Incidentally that statement also shows the 144000 are not limited to Jews as a nation, but to Abraham as “father of many nations” and “heir of a world” (Rom 4:13) – talked about later for this discussion.)
Although God is eternally complex, his will and purpose and way of uniting the whole is perfect and related, and that will be reestablished removing the errors of the Adamic system in order to accomplish this. The ultimate nemesis of this order of perfection, Satan, who also has the “ability” to cause death (Heb2:14) will also be removed after this human and earthly system is once again perfected to Jehovah’s perfection of design and performance, as that has been lost temporarily.
By that error and sin, the primary effect of it will be removed in the earthly system, since death is not present in heaven, we know these statements can apply only to earth, where death is a problem:
***(1 Corinthians 15:26) . . .As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. . .
And Satan is instrumental in this condition, and is a disordered weakness who must also be removed, directly connected to the “last enemy” which is human death:
***(Hebrews 2:14) . . .Therefore, since the “young children” are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly partook of the same things, that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil. . .
Satan and the demons use human death as an enslavement of mankind also emotionally through fear, coercion and it’s reality as cessation of life:
***(Hebrews 2:15-16) . . .and [that] he might emancipate all those who for fear of death were subject to slavery all through their lives. 16 For he is really not assisting angels at all, but he is assisting Abraham’s seed.
The mention of that seed ties back directly to the seed which actually came through Abraham’s earthly lineage:
***(Genesis 3:15) . . .And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.”
We see that seed was delivered for oath and promise and it is a very important covenant because it remains in force to be completed:
***(Genesis 22:15-18) . . .And Jehovah’s angel proceeded to call to Abraham the second time out of the heavens 16 and to say: “‘By myself I do swear,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘that by reason of the fact that you have done this thing and you have not withheld your son, your only one, 17 I shall surely bless you and I shall surely multiply your seed like the stars of the heavens and like the grains of sand that are on the seashore; and your seed will take possession of the gate of his enemies. 18 And by means of your seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my voice.’”
Amazingly Abraham represents “many nations”, and those with faith, so his seed has no limitation as far as God’s power to use it for his will and purpose:
***(Romans 4:16-17) . . .On this account it was as a result of faith, that it might be according to undeserved kindness, in order for the promise to be sure to all his seed, not only to that which adheres to the Law, but also to that which adheres to the faith of Abraham. (He is the father of us all, 17 just as it is written: “I have appointed you a father of many nations.”) This was in the sight of the One in whom he had faith, even of God, who makes the dead alive and calls the things that are not as though they were.
So God: “calls the things that are not as though they were”, so by faith we know this final phase is certain to occur for the removal of this curse:
***(Genesis 3:17) . . .cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life.
***(Revelation 22:3) . . .And no more will there be any curse. . . .
So from Genesis to Revelation to the recovery of man and earth from satanic meddling, the seed of God is instrumental, and in what we he chooses to use it for heavenly purposes related to his son the perfect pattern, and earthly purposes, we do not know every detail but God is complete and his power to do these things cannot be resisted, he will complete his will as jesus stated on earth as in heaven.
I see then nations actually applying not just to people but earthly locations, a certain tribe can inhabit a number of nations, the peoples is a full coverage of a symbol of humanity as delivered for a purpose, and tongues possibly as perfect communicative representation to man’s full experiences up to that time, for God will always preserve an eye witness group to various aspects of the outworking of his will.
We know some people but not all actually saw Jesus Christ, they will be back. We know every judgement had an eye-witness or more, such as Noah’s flood, Jerusalem in the days of Babylon and Rome, and the war of God will also preserve people to attest to God’s truth whenever it may be needed in future days, since these things will invariably arise over the 1000 year period for possibly many billions of people will eventually be given opportunity to find out the real story of the human family, why it is actually a family, and how to actually live endlessly under a being with no limitations and eternity is what he is and does.
Satan’s lies will be exterminated to the full, and we can leave that creep behind, because God is not going to stop eternity, for a weak angelic fool. This is just a matter of time, one day at a time.
Then the pure communication, it appears will be restored in full:
***(Zephaniah 3:9) . . .For then I shall give to peoples the change to a pure language, in order for them all to call upon the name of Jehovah, in order to serve him shoulder to shoulder.. . .
The human system will have death and it’s limitations and misery removed:
***(Revelation 21:3-4) . . .“Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
Again, death and misery are not problems which heaven needs addressed. Earth is the life system which is being systemically and systematically attacked by Satan, and God will remove that from the human system, we know Satan has already been purged from heaven eternally.
Whatever the fullest meaning of Rev 7 is, it is related to the 144000 and God’s restorative perfection upon a perfect human family which will be transferred from Adam’s limits, to the Last Adam’s, Jesus Christs’ eternal perfection as he was when a man, and that pattern is available to earthlings, fully in time. That is part fo the reason Jesus addressed these issues in the fleshly body of human perfection, for these issues were raised against that perfect body in Adam, and that will be proved a lie by all those who conquer Satan by faith, and eventually, he will be vanquished by superior power and force as well, his head will be smashed, crushed as stated in Genesis 3:15. The final blow to that liar, The Liar.
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Great Crowd in Heaven?
We are aware why many assume the “great crowd” is in heaven as from the Greek term used with “before the throne” and the topical logic of the vision, but God communicates a little deeper as needed. Heaven is not as far away as people realize, because it is not bound by space, time, light and energies as we know them in the physical dimension.
As an illustration I say to people don’t worry about going to heaven, worry about heaven “coming” to you, because that is what will be happening on earth at Har-Magedon, God is again pulling earth and the entire astral system under his wing so to speak, in “the tent” and that connectivity is not something that can be explained, but just to imagine heaven is another dimension simply, an older system, and that power in that system in righteousness has none of the physical limitations which humans are subject to on earth, and even by faith and power these earthly limitations are also transcendable.
Heaven and earth are more closely related and joined than people are commonly percieving is all I am saying, and as Eden had direct inter-connectivity with that power, so will earth again be reconnected to it’s Celestial and All-Time Master, and that connectivity has nothing to do with light-years, or any other perceived limitation, it is instantaneous, perfect, and related seamlessly to the power in earth systems, for it is it’s power source.
I don’t want to turn this into a meta-physic, but a concept, heaven is a realm, there is no barrier even now. Man’s blindness since Eden is what makes it hard for us to see this.
***(Acts 17:26-27) . . .And he made out of one man every nation of men, to dwell upon the entire surface of the earth, and he decreed the appointed times and the set limits of the dwelling of men, 27 for them to seek God, if they might grope for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us.
