Michael the Archangel – FAQ

ARCHANGEL (Record Divine Missions: 4000 BC TO 3000 AD)

http://www.archangelfiles.webs.com/

Timeline:

http://archangelfiles.webs.com/Arch1_Jesus%20Christ%20-%20ArchAngel%20of%20Almighty%20God%20-%20FrontPage%2006272009-final.htm

Michael the Archangel – FAQ

And regarding the archangelfiles.webs.com sites… however, I have a few comments about the some of the information in those sites.
On the chart page, at the top left under the “Description” column, it says:
Almighty God Creates:
Only Direct Creation>:
The Only Begotten Son;
‘Michael THE ArchAngel’
Michael: God’s Creative Power Tool>:
… “Missions/History/Notes” column it says:
Creator: Jehovah God through His Only Begotten Son (First Angel; Michael), The Divine Power Channel
Michael: ‘Power of Creation’ from Jehovah God Almighty, (John 1), God’s ‘Master Worker’ (Prov 8:22)
When it says that Michael is “God’s Creative Power Tool,” what exactly is meant by that? Also, it says that Jehovah through Michael, “The Divine Power Channel.” Could you tell me what that means, divine power channel? Also, it says “Michael: ‘Power of Creation’ from Jehovah God Almighty.” What exactly is meant by ‘Power of Creation’ from Jehovah?
Your welcome.

I think the difficulty in describing Michael’s role in Jehovah’s creation, is because Jehovah’s witnesses are careful not to call him The Creator, for there is the Creator who created Michael, as only begotten, a direct creation of God, therefore Jehovah alone has that title as the original truth.

All other creation, for Michael did not create himself, was brought about through him. So, whatever it may be, Michael has seen it and been it first, by God’s creative wisdom which he shared directly with Michael, and through him.

Insight on the Scriptues Vol II p. 52 Jesus Christ ***Not a co-Creator. The Son’s share in the creative works, however, did not make him a co-Creator with his Father. The power for creation came from God through his holy spirit, or active force. (Ge 1:2; Ps 33:6) And since Jehovah is the Source of all life, all animate creation, visible and invisible, owes its life to him. (Ps 36:9) Rather than a co-Creator, then, the Son was the agent or instrumentality through whom Jehovah, the Creator, worked. Jesus himself credited God with the creation, as do all the Scriptures.—Mt 19:4-6;

Even the scriptures are careful to show his instrumentality, not the source of the power of Jehovah, but the instrument of it for the will and purposes of God in creation:

(John 1:3) ..All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence..

(John 1:10)..He was in the world, and the world came into existence through him, but the world did not know him..

(1 Corinthians 8:6) 6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

(Colossians 1:15-16)..He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth..

(Hebrews 1:2-3) ..has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things. 3 He is the reflection of [his] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power;..

The second difficulty is that we just do not know what creation entails. That it is an energy based thing is obvious, but it is too deep to get into angelic realms or even earth’s with any real understanding, so Paul called all those endeavors of human wisdom “the elementary things”.

From the sound of it, the writer is keeping away from giving Michael title and power, which can only be used to describe God Almighty, but that God used him, and in the deepest way, it is hard to describe him. God is like the architect, and Michael is the Master Builder.

Like God was sharing the power of creation, directly into Michael, but Michael is just his word, or power in a being to carry out God’s Master Purpose, formulated from Jehovah perfect, and sent into becoming through Michael.

Michael: Also under the Missions/History/Notes column, it says: First, Older, Wiser, More Glorious and Powerful than any angel (Forever Master Angel) (Rev 12)
Michael: Second Only to Jehovah Almighty God THE Eternally Existent One (Michael’s Father) (Isa 40:25,26)
Could you or someone else explain to me, in what way was Michael ‘More Glorious and Powerful than any angel.’ Also, what exactly does ‘Second Only to Jehovah Almighty God’?
Thank you in advance for you answers.

That’s a speculation that to me as well, has logic to it. But it is a speculation. Michael’s age, and period alone with God, before any other creation existed is unknown. That there was a period of Michael’s early history alone is logical, because I would not know how an angel, could brings other angels into existence through himself, by God’s power, without a little preparation in understanding, if that makes sense.

I agree with that article, that Michael as Arch, is not only a title of “ancient”, but a pattern containing all angelic types, known and unknown, so arch as a speculation, is also a type of angel, a master angel in magnitude of potential which he inherited directly from God, being his exact representation.

I agree as well, because I think Satan is over rated for a reason. ALL we know is that he was anointed, a cherub, and he was placed in high responsibility, NOT authority over earth. His subsequent seizure was through mankind’s invitation, and his known envious, evil intentioned grasp of God’s creation.

So, in context, and just speculative logic, Michael is first-born into creation, and it’s paramount form of life, second only to God in super universal existence, so logically that is one very intelligent, powerful, experienced being of depth only surpassed in magnitude by God’s eternal power and “depth”.

Logically, also speculative, the powers that came through him, would cascade in the “power” chain. Michael is not an eternal power, and could a more powerful being be patterned from a lesser power? Would an angel come through Michael into existence, with more of anything than the source pattern Michael himself?

I say it’s just a speculation, and that Michael as the Son of God, only-begotten, logically retains a superiority in everything which would define that word, yet Hebrews makes it appear that maybe they had an equality we cannot understand just yet. So, I will say these things are speculation from a man.

That Michael, and as Jesus the Christ, is great in Jehovah’s purpose is obvious, and with that greatness is a responsibility which Michael fulfills and that is always knowing, showing and calling attention to Jehovah as his source of power, the God he worships.

In that magnificent power, of course, people can easily be led astray into doing something that Michael will not do, and that is idolizing even the greatest creation, over it’s Creator.

Maybe that’s why he is actually very low profile in the bible, but like his father, when he is mentioned, it as epic biblical periods, and controversies with demons or Satan that he breaks up.

(1 John 3:8)”because the Devil has been sinning from [the] beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, namely, to break up the works of the Devil.”

As a picture of a being who asks “Who is like God?” IMO, he is a great diametric personality against everything Satan has become, in all his moral qualities and principles. To me, Michael is the heavenly Jehovah witness, in that he actually saw him first, in full, and he continues to be that personal messenger of God, perfectly.

(Isaiah 63:9)..During all their distress it was distressing to him. And his own personal messenger saved them. In his love and in his compassion he himself repurchased them, and he proceeded to lift them up and carry them all the days of long ago.

Interesting job he has, LOL.

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That “authority” though, just as Jesus “conquering” the world, was an affirmation of a reality on progress. He though not being fully tested yet, said he conquered the world. That was not final then, but by faith it was as good as done, and it would lead to his final conquering and final conquest.

The below “rulership”, is at the 7th trumpet (1914):

(Revelation 11:15). . .And the seventh angel blew his trumpet. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying:“The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”

The final authority in heaven, is at Satan removal (1914):

(Revelation 12:9-11). . .So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven say:“NOW have come to pass

the salvation
and the power
and the kingdom of our God
and the authority of his Christ,

BECAUSE the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! 11 And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing. . .

That the “conquest”, has a “conquering” phase, that leads to the “final conquest” of Armageddon, is in:

(Revelation 6:2). . .”"And I saw, and, look! a white horse; and the one seated upon it had a bow;

AND a crown was given him,

AND he went forth conquering

AND to complete his conquest.”"

So, it’s a process we are now being made aware of in detail.

———

God is perfect, ordered and deep. What we do know, is his word though understandable, is not a comic strip to be understood in a snap.

The way God has done these things in heaven, is according to a now revealed, wise pattern. It has these phases because this is a complex issue Satan and Adam have fomented.

It is affecting Heaven AND earth, and God, angels and man. This is going to take wisdom, God’s design perfect, and God’s timetable, not ours or anyone else’s, but God’s appointed times, to fix this mess that goes beyond the universe to heaven, and back to earth.

Do not be fooled, this is very real, and very much in the process of being dealt with for all eternity, ONE day at a time.

It’s very interesting as well, and God does draw man to his word. Even controversy serves God’s wisdom, that investigation, study, contemplation and request to God, would be increased by these controversies, and God would draw humans into the only solution on this earth, the truth in God’s bible.

It’s all here in detail, so never give up looking into it, as if your life depended on it, because it does. That’s what we are all in, in this Satanic/Adamic mess. But God promised a way out, and knowledge and instruction is part of it, and why we have a brain, and the bible. If we truly study it, all of it, constantly, it will be revealed.

The solution to all mankind’s problems, and all heaven’s enemies, is on it’s way as we speak.

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Thank you for your reply.. However, what does that mean?

***However, what does that mean? ‘The Son was the agent or instrumentality through whom Jehovah, the Creator, worked’…what exactly does that mean?

Your welcome.

All I could speculate, is that God has the power, and Michael is a representation of that power, but not the level of experience, that Michael was participating.

We would be comparing two “super-computers”, both identical, both with the same memory and storage, but one has all the programs, and information, and an eternity of calculations and constructions which are the mind of God, transferring powers.

But how was the design in God’s thoughts, “given” to Michael to carry out? We don’t know, we can only use the same illustrations, and still not know exactly.

However it is, Michael became knowledgeable, and powerful, by that association, so his personal power, but not his creation design was employed as a speculation. Maybe he was given freedom in the creativity, within a creative master pattern. Do not know. Much of creation today, can be modified genetically, and by environment, and it’s ever changing never identical that we know of, and in eternally regenerating.

So we have to imagine things we do not nearly understand.

***Yes, but what does ‘through him’ and ‘through whom all things are’ and ‘by means of him’ and ‘through whom’ mean?

Don’t know exactly, but this scripture also indicates his power is still involved.

(Hebrews 1:3) . . .he sustains all things by the word of his power;. . .

So are you saying that that Michael is actually the one who ‘built’ the universe?

Well it appears his power in that being Michael, was the power that was actively involved, intimately connected, with energizing it in physical worlds, and spiritual, and it gets a little too deep for humans, IMO. It would probably surpass the first generation of angels I’d assume.

***Sharing the power of creation? But why?

I think it’s love. I think God has a quality, that in itself is hard to comprehend, but that quality of life, is a gift in just being, and the quality of an intelligent thinking God, in the things he can do with that, is also a gift, and thinking beyond the limitations of the selfishness of this world, the creation was an enhancement to the original gift of life, freewill and intelligent awareness.

I don’t want to sound cliche, but I think it’s a pure love affair, removed from the limitations of what the word means to humans, to a form of complete freedom, and purity in it’s original form from God, and by Michael’s record that we know of, in just the last 6 millenniums, and hints at his past, and what he did when he became man, it is no doubt Michael, by giving it all up, in both realms, and laying his life on the line for man, was first a gift to God.

Michael, the first being to give God back what he gave him, and to receive it back again, under perfect performance, tested in a perfect body to the absolute extreme of torture, mental anguish, physical exhaustion, and heartbreak. (psalm109:22) So he returned ultimately the love of God as an example for all.

I think love, though imperfect in us, in the universe, is the most powerful force and power, a literal divine emotion we inherited, so God really is love. And life, so life is a form of God’s love, which we have not come to respect, or appreciate properly.

The issue with Satan, is that he forsook that, and that hatred has to have a root in envy and weakness.

Love cannot be defeated, acting against it, we defeated ourselves. That word’s meaning is also what was brought into issue before all in Eden, so going with love, a true challenge, especially to Michael’s degree, is the victory.

Hatred, has no future really when you think about it. No way that that eternal power of love, permitting the issue though never compromising, will simply cease to exist, it must act 1 day. (Love lives forever. Hatred is death; dead)

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Also, could you show me the scriptures in Hebrews that you are talking about?

(Hebrews 1:4) . . .So he has become better than the angels, to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

The above implies at one time the chosen one, was not better than the angels. “has become better” is an interesting statement. As is “to the extent” that has inherited a name….

So below when Paul asks the supposed rhetorical questions supposedly implying the one who became Jesus the Christ (chosen/christened) on earth was ALWAYS “better” than the angels (in support of the trinity metaphysics), I see it now as a question, with an answer. [Michael]

(Hebrews 1:5-6) . . .For example, to which one of the angels did he ever say: “You are my son; I, today, I have become your father”? [Michael] And again: “I myself shall become his father, and he himself will become my son”? [Michael] 6 But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all God’s angels do obeisance to him.”

Another interesting aspect, is his life after he died. By his death, he was shown to be mortal, not immortal, but now his life has a new quality:

(Hebrews 7:15-16) . . .And it is still more abundantly clear that with a similarity to Mel·chiz′e·dek there arises another priest, 16 who has become such, not according to the law of a commandment depending upon the flesh, but according to the power of an indestructible life…

(Romans 6:9) . . .For we know that Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is master over him no more.

(Revelation 1:17-18) . . .And he laid his right hand upon me and said: “Do not be fearful. I am the First and the Last, 18 and the living one; and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Ha′des.

(1 Timothy 6:15-16) . . .This [manifestation] the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times, [he] the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, 16 the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see. To him be honor and might everlasting. Amen.

That this is applying to Michael is in the fact that no one would need to point out God’s immortality, he existed forever, and cannot be dominated. The scripture was summarizing the manifestation of the Christ, and a few of his qualities.

This being in the principle that angels, like Adam, and Michael at that time, possess everlasting life dependent on obedience. Michael as the man Jesus passed a test of absolute integrity, and was rewarded with an immortal (forever indestructible) life, and incorruptibility no longer testable with evil, as angelic.

Which relates to a title he was prophesied to receive: The Mighty God. A title no angel has received from Jehovah’s authority.

(Isaiah 9:6-7) And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. 7 To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it…from now on and to time indefinite. The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this.

(Isaiah 53:12) . . .For that reason I shall deal him a portion among the many, and it will be with the mighty ones that he will apportion the spoil, due to the fact that he poured out his soul to the very death, and it was with the transgressors that he was counted in; and he himself carried the very sin of many people, and for the transgressors he proceeded to interpose.

(Isaiah 63:8-9) . . .So it was to them that he came to be a Savior. 9 During all their distress it was distressing to him. And his own personal messenger (angel) saved them. In his love and in his compassion he himself repurchased them, and he proceeded to lift them up and carry them all the days of long ago. . .

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But Jesus is NOT!

True:

(Micah 5:2) 2 “And you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, the one too little to get to be among the thousands of Judah, from you there will come out to me the one who is to become ruler in Israel, whose origin is from early times, from the days of time indefinite.

But you do see from the scripture that does not lie, he has a what?

An origin.

He is not the eternal trinitarian you are seeking, nor will you find him I assume.

That’s why this one, Michael, the Christ to be, has ONE GOD, Jehovah.

Who needs 3 gods? We already have one!

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(Micah 5:4-5). . .“And he will certainly stand and do shepherding in the strength of Jehovah, in the superiority of the NAME of Jehovah HIS God.

Prince of Peace?: And they will certainly keep dwelling, for now he will be great as far as the ends of the earth. 5 And this one must become peace.. . .

You should ditch the philosophy I think is limiting your understanding of who we are discussing here.

Are you a trinitarian?

Is the trinity your God?

So I wont assume here?

Is that what you are saying, that Michael existed forever? and ever, in the eternal past?

Well he didn’t, he has a start point. And neither did Jesus the human, for he was non-existent as a man, until he was born a couple thousand years ago.

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Sure there is:

(Rev12:7-10)
“And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon… So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan…

…NOW have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, BECAUSE the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down….”

When?

“NOW have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God 

And?

AND the authority of his Christ, 

Why?

BECAUSE the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down….

That is one of the greatest statements in the bible, Heaven was cleansed by Michael, and that ACTION is the AUTHORITY of God’s Christ who would of course answer and beat Satan down personally. Now the Christ will of course complete that conquest, as Rev 7 states, on earth. Even Satan knew, his days were short, in a new way he had NEVER felt before, hence he has stubborn anger, but Michael is going to finish him off shortly, fulfilling the pre-Christian promise of crushing Satan’s head, Gen3:15, the first prophecy, fulfilled by the first angel, the first and only Christ chosen of God.

Who is like God? Michael will ask a last time. No one but God himself. Michael’s very name reveals his dominance as God’s protector of honor and truth, by God’s will of course, not his own.

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In the general sense, Satan tested a realm heaven. And he tested the realm of earth.

Those are at issue, not the other places God will reveal, and has given hints at at this time.

The earthly realm, is destroyed as far as Adam’s flesh goes. That is why Jesus came here, not as an incarnation, which he had done before, but as a born, Last Adam.

The flesh is at issue, the heavenly sovereignty issue has been solved, Satan is removed to another realm. Those heavens are also going to be cleaned out. The two realms which are at issue, are the ones to focus on, though I have no problem speculating about the others if you have stuff to show.

The earthly realm, is in a state of death, which God has promised to cleanse, and unlike heaven, this one ties into to much larger issues as well, earth, like it’s previous seniority in the process before this mess, will be brought back to perfection in that same way, the first will become last, that is earth’s realm will be perfected last, just as it came into existence, in that creative epoch, last.

We are the youngest. Only the new creation members, are “younger” so to speak, but their reproductive seed is not, it’s older than creation physical.

(1 John 3:9). . .”Everyone who has been born from God does not carry on sin, because His [reproductive] seed remains in such one, and he cannot practice sin, because he has been born from God.

(Ephesians 1:3-4). . .Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the…

…”heavenly places”…

…in union with Christ, 4 just as he chose us in union with him before the founding of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love.”

(1 Peter 1:20) 20 True, he was foreknown before the founding of the world, but he was made manifest at the end of the times for the sake of YOU…

So I don’t doubt the whole thing about heaven, heavens and abodes, and Adam’s former abilities which he lost, as being very intricate and deep, but for now, we are focused on the main issues Satan raised, and that unfortunately Adam, and many humans have continued to be in agreement with.

Many have grown accustomed to Satan’s ways, seen on earth today, but many of us are preparing for a new system of behavior, power and management on earth, which must come, and we are trying to get in line with that specific “will of God” as it will arrive as quite a shock to Satan lovers and those enamored by his practices taught through the Adamic system.

It MUST occur, to restore the former perfection, powers and abilities which God willed for the original man, on earth.

(1 John 2:15-17) 15 Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16 because everything in the world — the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world. 17 Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever.

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Another thing I must add which is shown at Rev21:3,4:

(Revelation 21:3-4). . .“Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more,. . .

(Revelation 7:14). . .:“These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation,. . .

(Revelation 7:15). . .and the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them. . .

That tent which is not in the full, since Adan’s transgression, will encompass the earth, and everything between Jehovah’s heaven, and earth, EVERYTHING.

So, that is how God will dwell WITH mankind, not man dwelling WITH God. It is earthly, and you know from your study, the interconnectivity between the Last Adam, and Heaven, is a strong unbreakable bond, which Satan has no penetration of.

Unfortunately Adam compromised that “tent”, and Satan’s penetration is reaching a climax, that is a connectivity he had before the flood, which he cannot break when God put eternal bonds on them, but that he is attempting to break, or get by in any degree, re-entry into this realm in full. But, alas, these are eternal bonds Michael put upon Satan at the Noah’s day, climax event.

God’s full tent is NOT completed over mankind until “death is brought to nothing”. Death is NOT in God’s tent over earth, and that tent MUST be completed for 1Cor15:24-26 to be fulfilled and the rest of that scripture. Satan himself cannot be within God’s tent either. Heb2:14

The full tent phase is AFTER Satan and all sinners are done away wth, then the FORMER things are no more as well, (Satan’s death tent), nor will they be called to mind, a complete newness of heaven and earth, all facilitated by that New Creation, for both realms, Heaven and Earth, and EVERYTHING encompassed in Jehovah’s tent, which includes humans in perfection.

We cannot imagine what that will entail:

(1 Corinthians 2:9-10). . .just as it is written: “Eye has not seen and ear has not heard, neither have there been conceived in the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those who love him.” 10 For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God.

That it includes two classes:

(Song of Solomon 1:5). . .“A black girl I am, but comely, O YOU daughters of Jerusalem, like the tents of Kedar,[yet] like the tent cloths of Solomon.

And that scripture indicates a quality like the one tent (Jerusalem’s daughters) is in the earthly one, and how that is to be, when Heaven and earth are one again, as in Adam’s sinless state, when God visited him, we cannot imagine.

That it will be completed, Satan and Adam cannot stop God’s will and purpose, it is a done deal in God’s mind, the most powerful center of power existing:

(Isaiah 66:1). . .This is what Jehovah has said: “The heavens are my throne, and the earth is my footstool.. . .

(Isaiah 66:21-22). . .Jehovah has said. 22 “For just as the new heavens and the new earth that I am making are standing before me,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “so the offspring of YOU people and the name of YOU people will keep standing.”

He will set his feet upon that footstool forevermore. He already has it in mind.

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Correction:

“The earthly realm, is in a state of death, which God has promised to cleanse, and unlike heaven, this one ties into to much larger issues as well, earth,…”

I’m not saying heaven did not have an issue raised continuously by Satan, as Job 1-3 also shows.

I’m saying it was resolved by God and his Chosen King before the earthly issue is resolved. Unlike heaven, the earthly issue is also including TRULY INNOCENT lives, animals. Even plant life and the entire realm, is suffering because Satan’s envy is trying to destroy God’s works, which God loves.

Earth, unlike heaven, has to resolve death, and the lost connectivity that implies, with the heaven cleaned, and the heavens to be cleaned. Satan is short-circuiting life on earth, and he too, must be terminated, absolutely and completely, before we can regain the realm and it’s connectivity, it’s place in God’s tent, which he promises to spread again, connecting everything within God’s power, that will be revealed to obedient humans, in an everlasting, perpetual process known as everlasting life.

So, we have much to learn. One thing I believe our lack of faith has done, is blinded us to the seamless interconnectivity which earth and heaven had previously, and will be reconnected to, we have an evil buffer trying to press his spirit into this world through a slavery to death and faithlessness were the work of sinner elementary man, is taught as any solution. It is not.

It’s going to take time, an abyssing to start with, because Satan’s presence, CANNOT be co-existent with the perfection of God, and the complete connectivity of his life spirit on the planet, in this realm we can barely understand, in fact we do not understand it.

Recall, Eve chose to steal wisdom, and this is what we get, Satan’s “wisdom”, a lying, weak, envious, prideful, Fool of fools, as a replacement for God? Obviously that, and Satan, and any who take pleasure from his ways, have no real future in God’s tent and power, or ANY of his heaven, heavens or realms.

Though we cannot see him, Satan, he has to go, entirely, and that old imbibed spirit of his, combined with Adamic systems of complete folly and LACK of true understanding, which Eve gave us in abundance, and Adam, is going to take time. Though comparatively short in 1000 years or so, it is still going to take time, and we know, this world is an obstacle which God will NOT tolerate much longer, it must be neutralized as he has shown it will be, Satan and the demons are completely rendered inactive, and the Christ’s spirit of God, must begin a similar process of life, as Satan was attempting to establish a system were death was the faith man has developed.

That entire death and predation as a basis for life, is FULLY reversed, even to the animal creation, so Isa 9-11, is completed.

God will not be stopped, in what his will has counseled right in front of human and demon face. Jehovah laughs at them.

(Psalm 2:4-6). . .The very One sitting in the heavens will laugh; Jehovah himself will hold them in derision. 5 At that time he will speak to them in his anger And in his hot displeasure he will disturb them, 6 [Saying:] “I, even I, have installed my king Upon Zion, my holy mountain.”

May we join in on that last laugh. LOL

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The fact that Jesus is a new name, and that Michael has existed as God’s first born of the heavenly creation is not the speculation, that has become obvious.

We were speculating about aspects beyond human understanding, and thus needed to be labelled speculation, for Satan could not answer them, because he does not know. There are things angels and humans both do not understand.

Michael understands those things, he has as the lamb, 7 horns and 7 eyes, complete vision and power of God’s purpose, to the degree and eternal being like the Almighty has chosen to reveal them, which again would lead to speculating on things we cannot know.

All Michael’s work, and as Jesus lead to the greater one, Jehovah, the only King of Eternity, for good reason. One.

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1. Then you are saying Jesus, the only begotten Son of God is one of several princes. Please explain that.[/QUOTE]

(Daniel 10:21)…Michael, the prince of YOU people.

We know he is the Prince of the Israelites at that time, the angel of the covenant. (God’s spokes-angel, the Word).

Below is a reference were specifically the “Prince” angel spoke concerning that covenant as God’s messenger:

(Judges 2:1)…Then Jehovah’s angel went up from Gilgal to Bochim and said: “I proceeded to bring YOU up out of Egypt and to bring YOU into the land about which I swore to YOUR forefathers. Furthermore, I said, ‘Never shall I break my covenant with YOU.

He is God’s personal messenger (angel/messenger) to Israel under that old covenant:

(Isaiah 63:9)…During all their distress it was distressing to him. And his own personal messenger (Michael/angel) saved them. In his love and in his compassion he himself repurchased them…

So, Gabriel also affirmed at that time, he is ONE of the foremost princes.

(Daniel 10:13) . . .look! Michael, one of the foremost princes, came to help me; . . .

But look what he is called by the end time prophecy Daniel 12, a new title entirely: “The Great Prince”, that is indication of being now, beyond just a foremost angelic prince, something has occurred, he was exalted, How? Why? (B(see “Exaltation” below)).

Something happened that is also shown in scripture, he entered the human world, and he conquered it (John16:33), sinless.

The thing that “prince” stood up into was Kingship, he already was the “Prince of you people”; “the Great Prince”; now the Kinged One; King of Kings.

Daniel 12 is a prophecy occurring after Jesus returned to heaven, because it precedes the following prophetic events promised:

(1) Michael “stands” (king) (Rev12:7-10).

(2) “time of distress (great tribulation)” (Matt24:21; Mark13:19)

(3) Divine rescue/Deliverance (Matt24:22; Luke21:28; 2Thess1:6)

(4) the resurrection (Acts 24:15, John 5:28,29)

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(Daniel 12:1-3) 12 “And during that time…

(1) …Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people.

(2) And there will certainly occur a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time.

(3) And during that time your people will escape, every one who is found written down in the book. 2

(4) And there will be many of those asleep in the ground of dust who will wake up, these to indefinitely lasting life and those to reproaches and to indefinitely lasting abhorrence. 3 “And the ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse; and those who are bringing the many to righteousness…
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(B) The Exaltation:

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[["Exalted" - definition: "raised or elevated, as in rank or character; of high station"]]
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(John 19:30)Jesus said: “It has been accomplished!”

(Philippians 2:9-11) . . .For this VERY REASON also God EXALTED him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

(Matthew 23:12)…whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

(Acts 2:33)Therefore because he was exalted to the right hand of God…

(Acts 5:31)…God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand…

(Hebrews 1:4)…So he has become better than the angels, to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

Mission from God Accomplished:

(John 19:30)…Jesus said: “It has been accomplished!” and, bowing his head, he delivered up his spirit.

Mission finished successfully, and God rewarded him as promised with a Kingdom:

(Luke 22:29)…just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom…

And the glory (received**):

(Revelation 5:12)…”The Lamb that was slaughtered is worthy to receive** the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.”

“Great Prince” of Peace

2.You are saying that Michael is the WORD that was with God from the beginning?

Yes.

1. He was shown as Angel of that Covenant

(Judges 2:1)…Then Jehovah’s angel went up from Gilgal to Bochim and said: “I proceeded to bring YOU up out of Egypt and to bring YOU into the land about which I swore to YOUR forefathers. Furthermore, I said, ‘Never shall I break my covenant with YOU.

2. God’s Personal Messenger (Angel, defined as messenger)
(Isaiah 63:9)…During all their distress it was distressing to him. And his own personal messenger (Michael/angel) saved them. In his love and in his compassion he himself repurchased them…

(Genesis 22:15-17) . . .And Jehovah’s angel proceeded to call to Abraham the second time out of the heavens ¹⁶ and to say: “‘By myself I do swear,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘that by reason of the fact that you have done this thing and you have not withheld your son, your only one, ¹⁷ I shall surely bless you. . .

(Genesis 24:7) . . .Jehovah the God of the heavens, who took me from my father’s house and from the land of my relatives and who spoke to me and who swore to me, saying, ‘To your seed I am going to give this land,’ he will send his angel ahead of you. . .

(Genesis 48:15-16) . . .The [true] God who has been shepherding me during all my existence until this day, ¹⁶ The angel who has been recovering me from all calamity, bless the boys. And let my name be called upon them and the name of my fathers, Abraham and Isaac, And let them increase to a multitude in the midst of the earth.”

 

(Exodus 3:2) . . .Then Jehovah’s angel appeared to him in a flame of fire in the midst of a thornbush. . . .

(Exodus 14:19-20) . . .Then the angel of the [true] God who was going ahead of the camp of Israel departed and went to their rear, and the pillar of cloud departed from their van and stood in the rear of them. ²⁰ So it came in between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel.. . .

(Exodus 23:20-21) . . .“Here I am sending an angel ahead of you to keep you on the road and to bring you into the place that I have prepared. ²¹ Watch yourself because of him and obey his voice. Do not behave rebelliously against him, for he will not pardon YOUR transgression; because my name is within him.

(Numbers 22:31-32) . . .And Jehovah proceeded to uncover Balaam’s eyes, so that he saw Jehovah’s angel stationed in the road with his drawn sword in his hand. At once he bowed low and prostrated himself on his face. ³² Then Jehovah’s angel said to him: “Why have you beaten your she-ass these three times? Look! I—I have come out to offer resistance, because your way has been headlong against my will.

(Judges 6:21-23) . . .As for Jehovah’s angel, he vanished from his sight. ²² Consequently Gid′e·on realized that it was Jehovah’s angel. At once Gid′e·on said: “Alas, Sovereign Lord Jehovah, for the reason that I have seen Jehovah’s angel face to face!” ²³ But Jehovah said to him: “Peace be yours. Do not fear. You will not die.”

3. Deliverer and Protector

(Psalm 34:7) . . .The angel of Jehovah is camping all around those fearing him, And he rescues them.

(2 Chronicles 32:21) . . .And Jehovah proceeded to send an angel and efface every valiant, mighty man and leader and chief in the camp of the king of Assyria, so that he went back with shame of face to his own land. . . .

(Isaiah 37:36) . . .And the angel of Jehovah proceeded to go forth and strike down a hundred and eighty-five thousand in the camp of the Assyrians. . . .

(Daniel 3:28) . . .“Blessed be the God of Sha′drach, Me′shach and A·bed′ne·go, who sent his angel and rescued his servants that trusted in him . . .

(Zechariah 3:2) . . .Then [the angel of] Jehovah said to Satan: “Jehovah rebuke you, O Satan, yes, Jehovah rebuke you. . .

(Jude 9) . . .But when Michael the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah rebuke you.”

3. You believe an angel made other angels? Please explain.

God Almighty alone is the maker of all things, he uses a son to create through.

He is a master angelic type, arch. There is only one arch-angel, meaning ancient. It is also implied meaning chief angel due to that seniority.

The Greek archaois, means firstly ancient. He IS the “architecture” of all angels who came into existence.

He did not create them, the were created through him, for only one is Creator and that is God Almighty, who only begot one son, Michael, the rest came through that relationship of Father to Son.

4. You believe that angels should worship, or even bow down, to another angel? Please explain.
When you can give satisfactory, believable explanations for the above then I can more on and consider what you have posted but first my questions need to be answered

Originally no. Even now that one is not set-up for worship, that comes in the fullness of the 1000 year reign apparently (Heb1:1-6), then he will again subject himself to the one who subjected all things to him, so God may all, as was the case before these issues of Satan and Adam were raised, to be settled, by also, and angel of God’s anointing, the Christ on earth, who was something before he received that title.

He was exalted to that superior position, as post one shows, a promotion after accomplishment of the sacrificial mission and initial ministry of the Kingdom good news.

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You did not answer the question. Who are the other princes that Michael is one of? You post only tells me you are avoiding my questions.

The only other angels noted as princes are of nations under Satanic rulership, hence prince of persia, etc.

(Daniel 10:13) . . .But the prince of the royal realm of Persia was standing in opposition to me for twenty-one days, and, look! Mi′cha·el, one of the foremost princes, came to help me; and I, for my part, remained there beside the kings of Persia.

(Daniel 10:20-21) . . .“Do you really know why I have come to you? And now I shall go back to fight with the prince of Persia. When I am going forth, look! also the prince of Greece is coming. 21 However, I shall tell you the things noted down in the writing of truth, and there is no one holding strongly with me in these [things] but Mi′cha·el, the prince of YOU people.

Obviously Michael is not with them in purpose. But it shows there is much about the angelic powers we do not know, there are princes in both good and evil governance or oversight, on God’s side, and Satan’s.

(Daniel 8:25) . . .And against the Prince of princes he will stand up, but it will be without hand that he will be broken. . .

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A couple more questions that need to be answered.
1.Are you also claiming that Michael is now a Mighty God.
2.Who is sitting on the right hand of God? Is it Michael or is it Jesus? Who is missing from heaven?

1. Yes. He has been given glory. He has been exalted for successful perfect service to God.

2. Jesus Christ is the universal name, it is known in earth as a man when he was here, and even now of course, and it is known in heaven as well.

Michael is a detail about who was to become the Christ, through Abraham’s seed, showing the name he had long before he was named Christ on earth around the 2BC times, and Christ in earth at his approval for the mission by God’s official public anointing when John the Baptist baptized Jesus and supernatural indication was given man, that Jesus was indeed the Christ, officially.

Michael’s name in heaven, is always shown in defense of God against Satan, thwarting his demons in Daniel, rebuking him in Jude, and casting him out of Heaven in Revelation. Bend knee to the exalted one, or get out! Of course Satan had to go.

Christ is the name of salvation, Michael is the name of the great for historical note, it is not the new name Jesus Christ now possesses, but it is still a great name.

(Revelation 3:12) . . .and that new name of mine.

He has a number of names in scripture:

(Revelation 19:11-14) . . .And I saw the heaven opened, and, look! a white horse. And the one seated upon it is CALLED Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness. 12 His eyes are a fiery flame, and upon his head are many diadems. He has a name written that no one knows but he himself, 13 and he is arrayed with an outer garment sprinkled with blood, and the name he is CALLED is The Word of God. 14 Also, the armies that were in heaven were following him on white horses, and they were clothed in white, clean, fine linen. . .

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No. I don’t think Michael being one of several princes who would put in the same catagory as any Satanic princes. That is guess work. It makes a lot more sense that there are other archangels. Even the Jews belived there are other archangels.
angels were created as messengers of God.
The Scriptures reveal that God created nine orders of angels:
Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominations, Principalities, Powers, Virtues, Archangels, and Angels.
Out of this order come the familiar seven Archangels which include
Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, Raguel, Sariel, and the fallen Lucifer.
Since you can’t give me a decent answer to the other princes how about answering the other questions I ask?

The bible does not contain those names. And I stated Michael is not WITH demons. But it shows a pattern.

History shows the Jews couldn’t even figure out who the son of God was, and were ruled by men Jesus called out to their face, as sons of Satan (John 8:44).

They have ancient occult knowledge, and that’s how they know, from Satan, things which go beyond the scriptures, to do what they did to themselves, mislead people.

They broke covenant, and are cast off, only faith in Jesus can recover them, as anyone else. They continue the blasphemy, which the Pharisees started, even murdering Jesus, not hard to see they were in covenant with Satan.

O would not listen to one word a renegade Jew might say, they STILL don’t recognize Jesus as Lord.

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Genesis 6 and Job 1-3, shows that angels are called Sons of the True God. They are also referred to as stars.

***Angels as stars

Job 38:6-7
Into what have its socket pedestals been sunk down,
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars joyfully cried out together,
And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?

Rev 22:16
I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to YOU people of these things for the congregations.
I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star.
Bright morning star is obviously figurative; The earliest star(morning), of glory (bright), angel (star)

***Angels as sons
Gen6
Now it came about that when men started to grow in numbers on the surface of the ground and daughters were born to them, 2 then the sons of the [true] God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and they went taking wives for themselves…

(In reference to the angels that sinned in the time of Noah, forsaking there won dwelling place (Jude 6, 2Pet2:4,5)

Job1:6
Now it came to be the day when the sons of the true God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them.

So, the first word, being the first angel, God’s messenger, The First. He was mesaager in heaven, being the Chief Spokesman of God’s Knowledge, and of course he retained that role on earth, being God’s Chief Spokesman of God’s Knowledge on earth. It’s his job. He is the Word of God, no matter where he may be, he is God’s Chosen Deliverer of ANYTHING having to do with Almighty God.

Michael, who on earth was aka Jesus, also the Christened of God. (Chosen Number 1)

True, is not the most important thing concerning Jesus Christ, but to us who follow him, we want to know everything about him, and God knows that and teaches us through Jesus, The Spirit of Truth. And, there is far more to learn, which has not been revealed.

Michael has enough in him, to keep man busy for trillions upon trillions upon trillions of years. And yet, Jehovah the Eternal King, in all directions, has an eternity of knowledge, and being Michael’s God, he teaches him all things, and has entrusted him with the Knowledge, power, and life within God himself. Michael knows there is no rush. It all happens a day at a time as far as humankind is concerned. Eternal life.

Now you see why they call Jesus, first in ALL THINGS.

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(Matthew 26:64) . . .From henceforth you will see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of heaven.. . .

So I think the teaching in any event is, that the being who became named Jesus shortly after birth by angelic pronouncement, and publicly Christ instantly after his baptism, though a son, called Son again, did not come to earth from the “right hand” of the throne of God.

Henceforth from his days as man, to an elevated position he was invited to sit at God’s right hand. In that position, with only God as supreme, it is a greatly enhanced position of power by God’s decree that it should be given to Jesus, the spirit being, the God selected King.

The Greek in that case, may not be accurate, but being second in the super-universal order, can be described in many ways, but in any of them, that all things have been subjected to him, by The Superior Power of it all, is fairly authoritative, and it does show a hierarchy of power, and actual acceptable works as the reason, so it is not an undeserved kindness it appears it was set before him as a challenge to be met, and it in a relative way, is set before all, and we can benefit from the undeserved kindness which his success provides upon our accepting the challenge of a race.

(Hebrews 12:1-2) . . .So, then, because we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also put off every weight and the sin that easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 as we look intently at the Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith, Jesus. For the joy that was set before him he endured a torture stake, despising shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Interesting that it is in progress, so eventually this “competitive match” against Satan, will conclude.

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You would think so. Even after the JW’s here trounced on him for spouting things that were NOT even close to what the WTS says or teaches! LOL!
Yes, I am laughng at your foolishness!
You always have spoken out about things you know nothing about. Why change now right?

Not true. No Jehovah witness have EVER trounced me.

If anyone would like to point out an example, and those who disagree here and there have been a few, I defend the logic with the bible, as pattern which Jesus opens up in discernment, which does take more time for some than others, but seeing it, is NOT a gift from a world whose goal, is to blind, for it is designed by Satan, since the days Adam and Eve thought they found enlightenment.

This world, is the light, Eve saw in her newly born, yet truly aborted “wisdom”. And so it will continue till the true light takes complete, everlasting power. That daystar rising, in the heart, is a progressive event. It is the light, that shines brighter and brighter in this darkened world.

(2 Peter 1:19) . . .Consequently we have the prophetic word [made] more sure; and YOU are doing well in paying attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until day dawns and a daystar rises, in YOUR hearts.

The prophetic word, which ONLY God alone interprets to his legitimate heirs, 144001, including the Daystar, the bright morning star, is how all I have stated is on line with these heirs, as the remnant, and is a legal pronouncement under the herald of the Angel of the 7 trumpets, and specifically, the 7th, the final warning horn.

If ever I speculate, I point it out, and say: “IMO”, “I feel”, “as a speculation”, “maybe”, “it appears as if it might be…”, etc. If ever someone has a problem with what I say, I listen to it, perhaps they have a valid point, as some have corrected me here, and I admitted it, and improved.

But either way, I enjoy defending and proving legally from God’s word, why certain patterns in todays world, AND the prophetic word which ALSO identified those patterns, apply to many temporary conditions we see developing, and why the must climax in God cutting the days short.

So, point these supposed errors out as “Not even close”, and how they do not conform to the remnant 144000 pure language teachings, and we can discuss it, rather than unsubstantiated claims.

I always point out the main issues Satan, and humans have brought before God’s court, to of course be resolved as to who shall rule this land, forever, and it is not what you see in humans in this world which is to come to nothing, or a limited temp angel/demon Satan.

God will be resolving these issues permanently, and if Satan and man could get it right, well we wouldn’t need judgment day would we?

That’s why at Har-Magedon God puts some order in the court, and the globe will here that gavel go BOOM!!, “court now in session”, the honorable Jesus Christ is presiding, please stand and grab your palm branches.

(Revelation 7:9-10) After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

Some people say this is in heaven. Really? Well Heaven has NO death, so how is it that this great crowd must be GUIDED to waters of life?

(Revelation 7:15-17) “”That is why they are before the throne of God…the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them…because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them,

and will guide them to fountains of waters of life.

And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”"

These are human eyes which are still subject to tears and death, until Jesus guides them to waters of life.

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John 5:18 ..” said also God was his Father making himself equal with God.
We must not marginalize the fact that Jesus was acknowledged by Yahweh to be his Son prior to him starting his mission. Matt. 5:17

John 5:18 was an ACCUSATION the Pharisees were claiming by slander, that Jesus had claimed by inference.

Jesus never has been, nor ever will be, nor has ever claimed to be, Yahweh’s equal. His is son. A basic illustrative truth.

Jesus could have EASILY made that claim on many occasions, but he never did so.

It is worldly philosophers, from a known root in Platonic Cabbalism, that claim as Satan does as well, that another being is God Almighty’s equal.

That is very dangerous territory to be in. That is why it is the first command.

(Philippians 2:5-7) . . .Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men.

This mental attitude is called subservient humility, to God. Christ did not come to teach men how to be God’s equal. He taught them how to be God’s slave, as Jesus is.

Jesus spilled his blood, in covenant to God for a kingdom, though that blood is for man’s benefit, it FIRST goes to God as a gift, as God provided his son to man, as a gift, by that men the debtors to death, and the pawned of Satan, have been purchased by ransom payment to God, by gift. Jesus gave his life and blood to God, and it can never be the other way around.

(John 4:10) . . .If you had known the free gift of God . . .

(Romans 3:23-24) . . .For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and it is as a free gift that they are being declared righteous by his undeserved kindness through the release by the ransom [paid] by Christ Jesus.

(Romans 5:15-17) . . .But it is not with the gift as it was with the trespass. For if by one man’s trespass many died, the undeserved kindness of God and his free gift with the undeserved kindness by the one man Jesus Christ abounded much more to many. 16 Also, it is not with the free gift as it was with the way things worked through the one [man] that sinned. For the judgment resulted from one trespass in condemnation, but the gift resulted from many trespasses in a declaration of righteousness. 17 For if by the trespass of the one [man] death ruled as king through that one, much more will those who receive the abundance of the undeserved kindness and of the free gift of righteousness rule as kings in life through the one [person], Jesus Christ.

(Romans 6:23) . . .For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.

(2 Corinthians 9:15) . . .Thanks be to God for his indescribable free gift.

(Ephesians 2:8) . . .By this undeserved kindness, indeed, YOU have been saved through faith; and this not owing to YOU, it is God’s gift.

(Ephesians 3:7) . . .I became a minister of this according to the free gift of the undeserved kindness of God that was given me according to the way his power operates.

(Ephesians 4:7) . . .Now to each one of us undeserved kindness was given according to how the Christ measured out the free gift.

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So yes he was already his only-begotten son, how was he called son in a new way, as God said: I today have become your father” at 30 years old or so?

How is he firstborn from the dead, when others had died and been resurrected by him?

How is it he was murdered, dead as a man (therefore not immortal), but Hebrews says at 7:16, he has an indestructible life?

This is why this Giver is greater than the gift, as great as this gift is.

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Regardless of how this is spun, you have quoted the official WT Society’s teaching concerning their jehovah god, creating only one thing (Jesus) and then Jesus creating all OTHER things (which is their official interpretation concerning Colosians 1:15-16).
This creates a tremendous problem for JW’s since Jeremiah the Prophet prophecised at Chapter 10 verse 11 the following; [concerning those who worship other gods]
“This is wha you men will say to them: The gods that did not make the very heavens and the earth are the ones who will perish from the earth and from under these heavens.” (New World Translation)
The delima now, is to explain HOW and WHY [since Gods word does not lie] is it concerning their jehovah, who did not creat the heasvens and the earth, will survive – since he only created Jesus and nothing else?
And, since Jesus did create the heavens and the earth, including all others this as stated in Col 1:16;
“…..all (other) things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and invisible no matter whether they are thrones or lodships or governments or authorities All (other things havde been created through him and for him” (NWT)
Jesus will not perish, yet the jehovah of the JW’s according to the NWT will, since he did not create the heavens and the earth.
Can anyone clarify this, please.

1. There is only ONE Creator.

(Revelation 4:11) . . .“You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they existed and were created.”

2. There is only ONE only-begotten Son of God, THROUGH WHOM all things were brought into existence seen and unseen things:

(Colossians 1:15-16) . . .He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.

created through him and for him. Not by him, but through him, and FOR him, so creation is from Jehovah alone, and Jesus worships Jehovah, Jesus is the mediator to Jehovah, nit the one to be worshiped as the Almighty God, but honored as a Mighty God (Ias 9)

(Micah 4:5) . . .For all the peoples, for their part, will walk each one in the name of its god; but we, for our part, shall walk in the name of Jehovah our God to time indefinite, even forever.

And which God does Jesus worship:

(Micah 5:4) . . .“And he will certainly stand and do shepherding in the strength of Jehovah, in the superiority of the name of Jehovah his God. And they will certainly keep dwelling, for now he will be great as far as the ends of the earth.

“Jehovah his God”

(Mark 12:29) . . .Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. . .

(John 20:17) . . .‘I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God.. . .

So, Jesus is regarded as God’s son, NOT the creator, but God’s means of creating, his Word.

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Hello all,
Many of you believe that the person Jesus pre-existed as the angelic being Michael.
What is the best evidence you can present for this belief?
The conquest of heaven by God’s Kingdom, we must recall from Rev12:7-10, DOES NOT bring peace to earth.

Actually [1] the VERY OPPOSITE effect is felt on earth due to Satan’s casting, anger, and knowing he has a “short period of time”.

In fact, “WOE TO THE EARTH” is the effect on earth, of God’s Kingdom power, seen also in Rev6, as Jesus white horse PRECEEDS the ride’s of Satan’s war, famine and death 3 horses [2].

But in heaven AT THE SAME TIME PERIOD? “B Glad you heavens” Satan has been conquered in heaven, and will be as well in the earth and spaces surrounding it, the “air” of Eph2:2; Eph:612;

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This “authority** of God’s Christ” though, just as Jesus “conquering” the world, was an affirmation of a reality in progress, in heaven first.

Jesus though not being fully tested yet, Jesus conquered the world.

That was not final then though he said “I have conquered the world”, but by faith it was as good as done, and it would lead to his final conquering (heaven) and final conquest (earth) before all mankind and rival human/demon kingdom to a totality (that is what the world is heading for Rev16:13-16, by demon expressions and signs).

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(Rev12:7-10)

“And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon… So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan…

NOW have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ,

BECAUSE the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down….”

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When? At that very moment of the casting as God’s authority of Christ in heaven:

“NOW have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God

And? This Michael, is?

AND the authority** of his Christ,

Why?

BECAUSE the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down….

And who did all those things? Michael

That is one of the greatest statements in the bible, Heaven was cleansed by Michael, and that ACTION is the AUTHORITY of God’s Christ who would of course answer and beat Satan down personally.

Now the Christ will of course complete that conquest, as Rev 6 states, on earth. Even Satan knew, his days were short.

Michael is going to abyss Satan/demons shortly, leading to the fulfilling the prophecy of crushing Satan’s head, Gen3:15, the first prophecy, fulfilled by the first angel, the first and only Christ chosen of God. [3]

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That the “conquest”, has a “conquering” phase, that leads to the “final conquest” of Armageddon, is in:

(Revelation 6:2). . .”"And I saw, and, look! a white horse; and the one seated upon it had a bow;

AND a crown was given him,

AND he went forth conquering

AND to complete his conquest.”"

So, it’s a process we are now being made aware of in detail.

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Who Is Michael the Archangel?
http://www.watchtower.org/e/bh/appendix_11.htm

Timeline

http://archangelfiles.webs.com/Arch1_Jesus%20Christ%20-%20ArchAngel%20of%20Almighty%20God%20-%20FrontPage%2006272009-final.htm

http://bibleresearchfiles.wordpress.com/archangel/

Other Proof:

Table2
http://archangelfiles.webs.com/Archangelfiles-Table2.htm

Table1
http://archangelfiles.webs.com/Archangelfiles-Table1.htm

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[1]

Jesus and Satan’s Rulerships are Concurrent During “Woe to the Earth”
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness/TQLBM3C9PEPN375IH

[2]
Seven Seals: God’s Kingdom/”Woe to the Earth” (Rev6 and Rev12 Perfect Circle)
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness/T6VA22FTE4VK5KIIS

[3]

Jehovah’s Super-Covenant with Jesus Christ
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness/T56DKGTGHD6V3QPKI

(Daniel 10:21)…Michael, the prince of YOU people.

We know he is the Prince of the Israelites at that time, the angel of the covenant. (God’s spokes-angel, the Word).

Below is a reference were specifically the “Prince” angel spoke concerning that covenant as God’s messenger:

(Judges 2:1)…Then Jehovah’s angel went up from Gilgal to Bochim and said: “I proceeded to bring YOU up out of Egypt and to bring YOU into the land about which I swore to YOUR forefathers. Furthermore, I said, ‘Never shall I break my covenant with YOU.

He is God’s personal messenger (angel/messenger) to Israel under that old covenant:

(Isaiah 63:9)…During all their distress it was distressing to him. And his own personal messenger (Michael/angel) saved them. In his love and in his compassion he himself repurchased them…

So, Gabriel also affirmed at that time, he is ONE of the foremost princes.

(Daniel 10:13) . . .look! Michael, one of the foremost princes, came to help me; . . .

But look what he is called by the end time prophecy Daniel 12, a new title entirely: “The Great Prince”, that is indication of being now, beyond just a foremost angelic prince, something has occurred, he was exalted, How? Why? (B(see “Exaltation” below)).

Something happened that is also shown in scripture, he entered the human world, and he conquered it (John16:33), sinless.

The thing that “prince” stood up into was Kingship, he already was the “Prince of you people”; “the Great Prince”; now the Kinged One; King of Kings.

Daniel 12 is a prophecy occurring after Jesus returned to heaven, because it precedes the following prophetic events promised:

(1) Michael “stands” (king) (Rev12:7-10).

(2) “time of distress (great tribulation)” (Matt24:21; Mark13:19)

(3) Divine rescue/Deliverance (Matt24:22; Luke21:28; 2Thess1:6)

(4) the resurrection (Acts 24:15, John 5:28,29)

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(Daniel 12:1-3) 12 “And during that time…

(1) …Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people.

(2) And there will certainly occur a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time.

(3) And during that time your people will escape, every one who is found written down in the book. 2

(4) And there will be many of those asleep in the ground of dust who will wake up, these to indefinitely lasting life and those to reproaches and to indefinitely lasting abhorrence. 3 “And the ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse; and those who are bringing the many to righteousness…
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(B) The Exaltation:

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[["Exalted" - definition: "raised or elevated, as in rank or character; of high station"]]
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(John 19:30)Jesus said: “It has been accomplished!”

(Philippians 2:9-11) . . .For this VERY REASON also God EXALTED him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

(Matthew 23:12)…whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

(Acts 2:33)Therefore because he was exalted to the right hand of God…

(Acts 5:31)…God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand…

(Hebrews 1:4)…So he has become better than the angels, to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

Mission from God Accomplished:

(John 19:30)…Jesus said: “It has been accomplished!” and, bowing his head, he delivered up his spirit.

Mission finished successfully, and God rewarded him as promised with a Kingdom:

(Luke 22:29)…just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom…

And the glory (received**):

(Revelation 5:12)…”The Lamb that was slaughtered is worthy to receive** the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.”

“Great Prince” of Peace

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Wow! That’s a lot of research.
I actually enjoyed your “Demon Hypothesis” essay the most, especially when you said that Satan and his demons were enema-ed from heaven. LOL!
Jehovah and Michael/Jesus. Our magnificent obsessions
LOL, now I might rephrase that LOL.

I notice certain things now in that that need refining. I believe now the Luke22:29 Kingdom covenant between Jehovah and Michael before he became Christ on earth had to have been in place before Jehovah spoke the Genesis 3:15 prophecy, and also because the current understanding of “the lamb slaughtered before the founding of the world” is perfectly brilliant when we see Michael became Last Adam upon his being born as a man, so the re-creation of Matt19:28a, in light of the understanding we have of “the Kingdom of the World” at Rev11:15-18 will now legally and by unfathomable to human’s by power, the entire “blessing” of the “subjection” and “subduing” of Genesis 1:27-28:

(Genesis 1:27-28) And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them:“Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.”

Is now rightfully Last Adam’s through Jehovah’s fantastic purpose of salvation through the Gen3:15 “seed” of his “woman”.

Then too the “image” of God in man can be restored.

(Revelation 11:15-18) And the seventh angel blew his trumpet. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying:“The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”

16 And the twenty-four elders who were seated before God upon their thrones fell upon their faces and worshiped God,

17 saying:“We thank you, Jehovah God, the Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king.

18 But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give [their] reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”

With that now handy conduit in Michael/Jesus Christ to then hand the whole thing back into Jehovah’s Sovereign Rulership totally obtained legally and of course with divine power and wisdom, and excruciatingly perfect performance by Jesus/Michael, to even allow the period of undeserved kindness for the 1000 years.

(1 Corinthians 15:22-28) For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.

23 But each one in his own rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.

24 Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.

25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet.

26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing.

27 For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him.

28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

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We know it’s the truth when it makes complete sense, coming or going, upside down and sideways, it all ties together back to the “founding of the world” actually a “refounding re-creation (Mt19:28)” in Jesus Christ Last Adam new Eternal Father of humanity, even the animals in his subjection now, will benefit to the full; Isa11; Rom11:18+; John6:39+

Gotta love it! LOL

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I am really interested to know any JW’s take on this as it relates to Michael being Christ. any takers or is this above all of your heads? Gotta contact the GB first to see what they say?

(Isaiah 9:6-7). . .For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. 7 To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end. . .

1/3

Michael is the conduit of all creation of God, the beginning, as IN the Beginning, not AT the beginning, Michael, the Word of God is IN whom all things were brought through to existence, including time, he being the Only-Begotten being directly created by Jehovah, hence Archaois (Ancient) Angel, even before he was chief angel since there were no others, he is firstly ancient, from the “days of time indefinite”, “the early times”, whose origin, meaning beginning, is from that “time”:

(Micah 5:2). . .“And you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, the one too little to get to be among the thousands of Judah, from you there will come out to me the one who is to become ruler in Israel, whose origin is from early times, from the days of time indefinite.

(Proverbs 8:23). . .From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth.

“From the start” of what? ALL CREATIONAL TIME.

Michael is Jehovah’s Clock of Creation.

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But to make a long story short, it was prophesied he was to be savior from Jehovah as angel:

“”In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the Angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bore them and carried them all the days of old.”"

(Isaiah 63:8-9). . .So it was to them that he came to be a Savior. 9 During all their distress it was distressing to him. And his own personal messenger saved them. In his love and in his compassion he himself repurchased them, and he proceeded to lift them up and carry them all the days of long ago.

Notice that? Jehovah’s Personal Messenger Angel. Now that is not just any angel, LOL.

And who “carried” them out of Egypt after Jehovah struck Pharaoh, his so-called gods and the firstborn of the land with this sword? Michael.

(Exodus 19:4). . .‘YOU yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, that I might carry YOU on wings of eagles and bring YOU to myself.

(Malachi 4:2). . .And to YOU who are in fear of my name the sun of righteousness will certainly shine forth, with healing in its wings; . . .

Same Angel there as here:

“”Behold I send my angel, and he shall prepare the way before my face. And presently the Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the testament, whom you desire, shall come to his temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts.”"

(Malachi 3:1). . .“Look! I am sending my messenger, and he must clear up a way before me. And suddenly there will come to His temple the [true] Lord, whom YOU people are seeking, and the messenger of the covenant in whom YOU are delighting. Look! He will certainly come,” Jehovah of armies has said.

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But as we know, Michael died to heaven to become flesh, “emptied himself”.

Emptied of what? Heavenly life.

And he became a born human being, the “second man out of heaven” as opposed to the “first man out of earth” Adam.

This is why Jesus is also Last Adam. He replaces Adam and all the rights thereto, all humanity, animals and FILL THE EARTH AND SUBDUE IT! The blessing.

He did this by dying not the Adamic death, but a sacrificial death to Jehovah. Jehovah provided that salvation from that gift of blood sacrifice and body of Last Adam, which he gives to mankind with faith, and even purchased the whole world.

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But he did die, he was mortal.

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But not anymore.

(Hebrews 7:15-16). . .there arises another priest, 16 who has become such, not according to the law of a commandment depending upon the flesh, but according to the power of an indestructible life,

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Immortality and Jehovah’s titled making of Michael, is how archangel is also Mighty God. Upgraded to incorruptibility, impossibility of sin, immortality in Jehovah’s power.

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2/3

He will also become Eternal Father due to the covenanted Adamic rights (among others) that the Luke 22:29 “Decree of Jehovah” gives Michael:

(Psalm 2:7-8). . .Let me refer to the decree of Jehovah; He has said to me:“You are my son; I, today, I have become your father. 8 Ask of me, that I may give nations as your inheritance And the ends of the earth as your own possession.

The Decree?

(Luke 22:29). . .my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom. . .

That is WAY before he came to earth. He already knew the “bruising of the heel” was his destiny to die the sacrificial death, to destroy the current world ruler:

(Hebrews 2:14-16). . .Therefore, since the “young children” are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly partook of the same things, that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil; 15 and [that] he might emancipate all those who for fear of death were subject to slavery all through their lives. 16 For he is really not assisting angels at all, but he is assisting Abraham’s seed.

and he is that “seed” alright:

(Genesis 3:15) 15 And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.”

And this “king” has to go to:

(Romans 5:14). . .Nevertheless, death ruled as king from Adam down to Moses. . .

(1 Corinthians 15:25-26). . .For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing.

Which means sin removal, so no Adam can continue in mankind, and that is why Jesus is “bread of heaven”, bread is the symbol of human body, not divine, and Jesus provides sinless human body as Last Adam to “ReGenesis” “all thing new” by “new creation’s” ultimate power to do these things, as God has willed:

(Matthew 19:28). . .Jesus said to them:“Truly I say to YOU, In the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down upon his glorious throne…

*** Rbi8 Matthew 19:28 ***
Or,“regeneration; rebirth.”

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So the entire Adamic blessing suspended under curse, will be removed by “waters of life” (Rev22:1-3; Rev7:17) the teachings of the “Wonderful Counselor” which results in also no war, therefore Prince of Peace.

(Isaiah 9:6-7). . .For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. 7 To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end. . .

3/3

We already knew Michael was a “Great Prince” who actually stood up, into King, since he was “Great Prince” already, what could he “stand up” into that was even higher than Great Prince?:

(Daniel 12:1). . .“And during that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people.

(Revelation 12:7-10). . .And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon…So down the great dragon was hurled…Now have come to pass the…kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ,

BECAUSE the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down. . .

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And that is the final curse, but this one is NOT lifted, it is executed to completion:

(Genesis 3:14) Jehovah God proceeded to say to the serpent: “Because you have done this thing, you are the cursed one”

(Matthew 25:41). . .the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.

(Revelation 20:10). . .And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur. . .

Michael is the Master Heavenly Sword of God:

(Isaiah 27:1). . .In that day Jehovah, with his hard and great and strong sword (Michael), will turn his attention to Leviathan (Satan), the gliding serpent, even to Leviathan, the crooked serpent, and he will certainly kill the sea monster that is in the sea (of mankind; Luke21:25-28).

As prophesied:

(Numbers 24:17) 17 I shall see him, but not now; I shall behold him, but not near. A star will certainly step forth out of Jacob, And a scepter will indeed rise out of Israel. And he will certainly break apart the temples of Moab’s [head] And the cranium (Satan – 7Heads) of all the sons of tumult of war (demons and war loving humans).

“A star** will certainly step forth out of Jacob”

(Revelation 22:16). . .I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star**.’”