1/6
> /See my previous message/ So what Im saying is that it seems NO SENSE to me,
> for someone to claim that God did not want his creatures to gain knowledge!
> Then why did He make man in His image? Lol.
>
> I believe ‘eating the knowledge of good and bad’ without asking, means that man
> said ‘Hey, I can be a god, I can live forever and discover the world alone,
> without having anyone telling me ‘This is good’ or ‘This is bad’. Father leave
> me alone!’ So man was fooled to think that he will not die and that he will
> gain the supreme knowledge God holds. It is like a child telling his parents to
> leave him play with chemicals. I sincerely judge as foolish the idea that
> ‘knowledge’ in Genesis text, means cleverness,reasoning and progress. Did
> Jehovah make a foolish animal called man and prohibited him to be wise? Lol,no.
> Theres a difference between a baby and one lacking reasoning. A baby needs
> guidance and it can be wise one day.
>
> So… the second thing, I judge as foolish the idea that Prometheus’s
> ‘stealing’ is the same robbery as the ‘knowledge of good and bad’ ! Lol, are
> the discoveries and achievements of man, evil? Of course there is a connection
> and progress somehow made him a more arrogant ‘god’, but man was punished
> before he makes any progress, not because he made progress. Thats why I think
> there is an anachronism on the punishments.
>
> So many people present a God who is jealous and gets angry when his creatures
> discover things thanks to the brain they were given. Lol, I totally reject such
> a view, no sense for a wise God of love!
Yes, your assessment of that “tree of knowledge of good and evil” is the exact meaning of it. The legal authority issue. Yes man denied it, and claimed it is invalid, no need for God’s authority in determination of good and bad, legal and illegal. (Many make that typical topical reading claim, which actually supports the Satanic side, that God would withhold intellectual capacity from his son Adam (when he was such). It wasn’t the intellectual issue, it was the rights of what it was used for, self-will or God’s will, self authority and demon authority, or God’s authority.
I say legal. But as we see men are constantly haggling within their own selves, within their own families, within their own social class or context, within their own government about what is legal (good) and illegal (bad).
So even as we discuss this, the VERY ISSUE raised in Eden, is raised within ourselves and our own minds and in this discussion – and worldwide the issue is now men haggling the very issue they determined God was unauthorized to preside over, LOL – men decided God is no authority, but not who is in the process, LOL – it’s all force of missiles now.
So I believe and I believe you believe, that God has the say on what is defined as “legal” and therefore what is “illegal”. LOL. I’m done with men in oblivion, acting like gods, but I have to put up with it for a while longer. And that is what this issue has men squabbling for, being godlike, yet we are just clay, LOL – oh poor humanity, LOL
2/6
And that then applies to these men of power in our world, who cannot even decide thoroughly within themselves (much less upon others), then they must get into counsels and rule a nation with the exact same tendency to distort while defining “legal”, they have ulterior purposes in many cases, many laws have a grander purpose of control for control’s sake, and profit, resource allocation, protection of entities from competition, etc, and it is all behind the scenes full of illegal thinking from God’s standpoint, and even some men’s.
Now imagine many nations interfacing, with the very cell (man) divided, and the basic building block (the family) divided, which of course our whole social matrix is also all chopped up in various sub-cultures who also are divided – but it’s not the divided brains fault! LOL
It created massive division.
Yet in contrast, Jesus states the “kingdom of Satan” in the spirit existence of the demons, is NOT divided:
(Matthew 12:24-26) . . .the Pharisees said: “This fellow does not expel the demons except by means of Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.” 25 Knowing their thoughts, he said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself comes to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 In the same way, if Satan expels Satan, he has become divided against himself; how, then, will his kingdom stand?
Satan is evil, but he is not unintelligent. He is the one who knows, he is illegal, he knows God judges him as the first criminal, and he received a curse first as well (Gen3:14).
So what I mean is, the dividing of mankind, is the downfall. It actually works for both the Satanic will, and Jehovah’s. One, by no true central authority, Satan can play the whole division from his own unseen united authority. And two, it has slowed down man, the tower of Babel “divisions” was a divine act, in this phase, Jehovah does not care if man is divided, he wants them to be for in this phase it is better than being united under the devil:
(Matthew 10:35) . . .For I came to cause division. . .
Not that God is doing this for man’s downfall, he also already knew there would be a downfall as a result of the illegal grasping of his authority to define good and bad, legal and illegal – all kinds of error and tragedy would compound and ricochet from that first error in “judgment”.
God is playing more in strategy with Satan, than he is with man caught between the two, and God cannot be “figured out” by hosts of demons working on the “chess game”.
But God is playing for keeps, there was no chance Satan could defeat the Almighty mind, God knew that, apparently Satan lost sight of that reality, but God knew and we know by the way his prophetic insight from 6000 years ago already had the solution.
And amazingly with all those covenants, God is a strict legal being. But also amazingly is that Jesus Christ’s legal performance of all God’s laws perfectly, in full knowledge of them in heaven and earth, actually extends to men for a period, undeserved kindness, meaning illegalities are excused, by means of a legal way for God to excuse them with a grander purpose.
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3/6
But the big issue Satan raised, and Eve and Adam joined in, was that God was illegally, or unrightfully and selfishly holding back “knowledge” from men, that is the ability to define good and bad, and then believe it, we ended up believing lies, that we called truths. But the issue is sovereign rights of God’s legal jurisdiction (in his eyes) of his rulership. I agree with God, ecause in this world, the issue instantly flares up with humans about such things, people can’t discuss soccer and football teams, or politics and philosophy without getting into the very same issues of defining this, that and the other thing.
Look how human laws one year, are totally irrelevant a few years later, like the US Constitution “rights”. Those seeds from that “tree” are still present, and it is not about intellect, it is about rights, who has the legal right to decide, God or man? Or demons? Or whatever comes along after that, this government, that group, endlessly dividing and trying again, and abusing the rights of people, animals and the planet, and ultimately God.
So look at what happens, we are not even free, as in America, to go sleep in a park in free assembly, I can’t fish and hunt without the giv’t getting it’s cut, licenses, insurance, bonds, liabilities, judges, sub-judges, and institutions set up as judges of everything known to man.
So men have ended up having to be judged by other men, and people pitted against each other in these human “organisms” of groups and peoples, who end up being the mass social anthills all fighting each other over even what color bandanna someone is wearing, or who is to say if I can wear a yellow top hat with fluorescent green hi-tops, LOL.
So it’s pretty clear to us that see it, that even people saying this was a simple meaning of God keeping man “stupid” is in itself saying no this is the legal interpretation of that genesis story, and all the other possible variants, even demonstrating the very thing the tree symbolizes, the right to decide for ourselves.
Which is interesting, for it is a freewill, but limited by the lack of reality of the actual truth. So it was perfect from then on for satan, to more easily guide men divided to a degree, and uniting them by the very principle of self-rule which creates that division, a united “chaos” as in an order Satan can see and use, but men perceive no true unity, so they bond up groups and anything they can, to get a foindation to “believe in” and these have formed into nations, all built on those clusters of division, being glued together by local, state and national law – and as bad as those can be, without them it would devolve back to the former state it tries to organize to a “higher” level from.
Everything about this story, and the telltale and blatant signs in our present and past histories and societies, has Gen3 fingerprints all over it, LOL. Even the basic new emotions that Adam and Eve developed, are still present. And of course that “sweat in the face” for a loaf of bread, meant before long, people would figure out how to own a bread company with no physical labor, but long before that, many people figured out how to make other sweat and die for their benefit. But in the entire “groaning of the creation” the rich are not immune to the impartial judge death. Satan oppresses all in one way or another.
4/6
The whole basic pattern of human mental division leading to social and national division global, and the emotional complex while alive, and the Heb2:14 “fear of death” complex interjecting into it all, in a compounding world all experiencing these very same developments effects, in various states of awareness of the true reality, of course would stress the whole in various ways.
Yet there are still the measure of good times and learning in the process, God has not abandoned the human race entirely, just enough to save it from a distance, but encountered face to face (the Word when flesh) the main legal issue perfectly though briefly in that mission of Jesus Christ, yet man also, even as Jesus willing did, man also has that gloomy curse constantly inter-playing with the human race. Meaning Jesus took a curse, but was no curse, he was in undeserved illegal treatment totally, we on the other hand, have that sin complex present since Adam, that we cannot understand, but we compound it because we are imperfectly capable of being sinless.
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Which brings me to the very curse itself. Now true, God has had to punish compounded evils far after gen3. And true man did raise a legal issue with God’s rights, and also his very will for earth, his name as well in meaning.
So humans are in an illegal status overall, couldn’t get any worse really, other than if God actually abandoned the planet to himself, then we would literally go back to dust, and in enough years our very names would be unknown, we would literally vanish, even if it took a million years to grind the name of the last marble headstone being ground back into the earth system, we would be gone in reality.
And subconsciously that is the reality. People are focused on making a name, to “live on”, LOL, in time it will perish, so they think I need DNA from me flowing out to humanity, yet even those genealogies are lost, the children are in the same sinking boat, it’s as Solomon said, just vanity.
But I digress. I believe the Eden sin was condemned by God, he was unrightfully attacked and doubted in principle by demon and men.
But I also think it is a consequential death as well. Like if I told a 20 year old, do not eat the fruit of this plant, it’ll kill you, you will positively die.
And I know that plant is a systemic toxin once ingested. Well the person eating that, because they think I am lying, and I find them stone cold dead in the garden, I did not do that to them, that person did it to themselves, the death was a consequence.
Plus I’d have no right to actually curse that person, nor the power to do it, so they suffered the consequences already potentially within that fruit.
Now the tree of knowledge had a different poison, not a physical poison, but an intellectual one. What I mean is, living forever on earth, has a process to it, you don’t just do whatever we want, that merely compounds error. But that is exactly what man did. So yes God has the right and power to curse, BUT there was a consequential potential death that was ALSO brought into the system of man, they were going to start to make deadly mistakes, not once, but eventually billions of times, and those mistakes would compound into whole complexes of mistakes, legalized into systems by humans “evolving” civilization which by nature of the imperfect engineers, can only be as effective as any one man in the design sequence. So these errors are now even death systems.
5/6
For example, if you took America’s completely obtuse and blind way of dealing with the planet and others, all conveniently remote controlled by top level commercialism and regulatory means to spread the pyramid from the top beneficiaries to the herds empowering them nation-wide and even overseas, layer after layer of removal from the reality of what it is doing, and who is making the real decisions, for it’s exorbitant lifestyle, and you spread that to every man woman and child on earth, we would already be gone.
That 21 times factor, of Americas already 10 times consumption rate, or close, of the rest of the planet, it’s not just 7 billion people living the “American scheme” LOL, it’s like 70 billion people. Even if we just consumed 3 times as much as the average global inhabitant, that is 21 billion people’s worth of consumption, in the “American way”.
No way that would last, and also, no way that kind of consumption, EVEN NOW, should be promoted as some sort of global glory system to be shoved down everyone’s throats. But given the nature of man, that is what Russia, China, India, Brazil and the rest are trying to emulate, and it is a death scenario to think even 1 billion more people could live at the arrogant American consumption level.
So, what started here as good intent, is the model of hw to kill a world if indeed it ever went truly global, even with the 1% lopsided distribution level, the rich consume 100′s of average persons sustaining resources just in the baggage that a single entourage of these people can carry, not just the individual, every single piece of our very possessions comes with a world price, in dollars maybe, but in global resources for sure.
That is how that many layers of removal from real reality in America, has made people unaware of the collective effect negative upon the world, of all our individuals “luxuries”, and they are teid into every manmade object in our possession. making it worse, for monetary prfit reasons, American design (and others) ahve planned obsolescence, and are built to buy more later, all the disposable mentality of the culture of consumption which has gone insane, so slowly, it does not see it for what it has become.
So they either depopulate the planet in long range planning, or some other human beings out there will have to become another human sacrifice of a social consumption “organism”, to allow newly freed and redirected resources and fuels (food/oil/etc) to keep feeding this American massive parasitic super-system cancer, composed of little cells of us all here individually, spreading everywhere by the US “mindset” invasion, and few of the “cells” understanding it’s consumption at the bottom, is driving the vacuum system at the top, as it spreads it’s tentacles all over the world by finance and military pre-planning – because at the top, they know what this is all adding up to.
6/ 6
And that is what it will come down to as well, us or them mentality at the top, sold as some war pretext to the bottom, so the top consumers (the top) can live lives even 100′s of times more consumptive than the most consumptive in the pinnacle consumption nation, because the top expands, though slower, but it expands as well, in numbers, and never in efficiency, it just goes and stampedes the herd to the next victims, one day Native American Indians, the next day Iran or China, these people at the top, have become fully demented also removed from reality of the ugliness of the redirecting and acquisition stage (at the bottom).
So the bottom has a TVtube and political theater puppets as their guide, and see nothing the top is up to, the top lives in the “magic kingdom” and never has to actually see the consequences first hand of it’s external victims, or of the internal casualties of it’s own people. Two handy blindness shells, that act like pistons in an engine, one drives the other to consume for profit, and the other is driving the top to find more to victims to consume for their consumables, and neither is aware in various ways of what the top is up to, or what the bottom is actually like.
So yes, it’s gotten very complex and messy as time went by, and many seemingly handy inventions and technologies actually are killing us, that weird double edged sword again.
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Which brings us to the beginning again, to re-evaluate the decision made in Eden, in light of the reality of men making legal decisions in place of God regarding the ever elusive “good” and “bad”. And worse, allowing demon coaching to guide it.
So it’s all adding up to God having to make the final call (the final war), and also take his truly legal jurisdiction back, after this keeps progressing to where it must for it is not a static system, and it is a closed system many things do not renew so easily, and this is where it was actually heading just after those first two bites of Eve and Adam into that fruit, however that actually transpired.
And strangely, the global system, like Adam who did not die immediately, and may have thought after like 500 years, heh heh, he was lying, I never will die! But he did eventually, just speculating what they thought in the “day” they ate, if they realized it was a 1000 year day. So the global system, it is also going on like, heh heh we need no God! We got it all figured out! But it to has systemic death, by all the “cells” in it being imperfect, all the people, and it like Adam, will eventually also self-destruct by terminal curse, beyond it’s understanding, and that within the 7000 day of Jehovah, so BOTH Adamic man, and his super-spawn human system entity, will die in that “day”.
But we know that not entirely, Last Adam has a remnant to begin the loop back to Gen1:27-28, in both heavenly realm position and earthly position to become the actual “growing to perfect” demonstration model of letting God do his own rightful “job”, and then we won’t have to! LOL, do his “job” anymore – AND WE CAN TAKE A BREAK, GEEEEEEEZ.
LOL
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This Topix post related, so I added it as an explanation of the actual legal issue being resolved raised in the Edenic unauthorized action of that fruit.
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SoandSo wrote:
So out all these post yall prove the point the bible is a historical law book that can be argue on both side of the aisle Like Lawyers Like Politicians you guys are their offsprings look at the pattern…Focus on the message not messenger if it holds no weight than trash it….
I asked, “Can I get a witness?”…All you provided was rhetorical dogma, is that a not true assessement and if so how?
1/2
But you have to understand, these are legal issues.
You see the Almighty God’s LEGAL jurisdiction over this planet, and universe by extension, has been “legally” challenged by humans and angels.
If we think this is just fantasy, then we are already defeated by the “deceiver”, and we know men for example, reflect Satan’s deceptive master pattern.
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OK, so imagine this is all real, the Almighty God’s supreme legitimacy as the sovereign ruler, has just been demoted to a sideline power, by a Satan, and by men raping his planet for profit, pleasure and just sheer survival as the unequaled idiots of the universal domains, hand down – no one visiting this planet, and seeing what men are doing to it would question that a lack of intelligence into the very systems of life here is present.
Men are running on ego, arrogance, and the end of the rope.
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Ok.
So God knowing what men are about, wanting everything “leagl” and in “order” and “proven” etc, the entire basis of human governments, and hence the absurdity of why they cannot get along, that is men have a tough time deciding legalities, you know, good and evil things, grey areas, good intentions that lead to hell, one thing leading to another, the 10th move resulting from the one pawn, etc.
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So the Jehovah’s witnesses have some legal” specialists that prove from the bible, how through a number of covenants, God is LEGALLY first establishing the rulership of his son.
That rulership includes “heavens” and “earth” a universal dominion.
And he shows how his son’s rulership, all legal with much forbearance – in heavens and earth – will in the end (1Cor15:24-28) RETURN legally before men and angels, the Sovereign Jurisdiction, undisputed, of God Almighty Jehovah.
God is KINDLY doing these things with patience within a set time period, Jesus get’s the last 1000 years.
He does this because 1. angels raised issues with God’s rulership techniques, love, justice, wisdom and power. They say that God is unjust, and that they are more powerful in the principles of how to rule men.
2. Men, since Eve and Adam, have also joined in this rebellion.
3. The earth is actually a very valuable place, not in human terms of wealth that they try to convert it to, while they strangle their own life support system, but to holy angels, the son, and Jehovah, they ALL value this planet, and they know men who may raise issue in the future, that these precedents set today, may help them avoid the grave disaster of another attempted power trip, even if it is not to the terminal and systemic degree of Adam, these precedents are now being universally set.
Next time if it arises, God has NO reason to work kindly and patiently with an attempted usurpation.
This first time, it would have meant the extermination of men, and God doesn’t want to exterminate men who are already under a legal curse, God sends his Spokesman Jesus to reason with ALL mankind.
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The demons are only living, because God has not settled the human issue yet. But when he does the curse is executed upon all the demons.
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Man though, can bypass that execution by understanding the true situation we are in, and how currently humans are in ILLEGAL control of the planet, but they will “drop the ball” on their own.
God will pick it up, here at the designated end test period of demon guided rulership, and man ruling man.
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2/2
So Jehovah, back in Gen3:15, already selected a new world ruler, who will replace Satan, and evil men, and provide a legal basis by which men can escape that destiny to destruction.
Jesus by fulfilling all God’s covenants, by being the “seed” (Abrahamic covenant), and by keeping the “law” (Mosaic covenant), and by instituting the “new covenant” he is also fulfilling the Davidic covenant as legal King in God’s eyes, he keeps the covenant with God that preceded ALL of these covenants, and made them all possible.
So legally, Jesus Christ is replacing Adam the Dead Man, and assuming ALL the rights Adam lost in the human family, over the animals, and over the earth, with the commission to fill it with people living forever, he is “God’s image” as Last Adam, the second Man, the “image of God” that Adam lost into sin and death, and Satan;s image, for that is also Satan’s main character and destiny, Adam has become, like his demon god.
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Jesus is scopping it ALL up, legally.
God knows some men may be envious of this total legal check-mate, so he sets up all the details through the bible, WHY JESUS CHRIST HAS THE LEGAL RIGHTS UNIVERSAL, AND ON EARTH, TO BE GOD’S ANOINTED KING, IN BOTH REALMS.
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Because people and angels can at times be nitpickers, so God has a touchstone precedent to refer to, just in case, just in case this issue EVER is raised again – it will be treated illegally, from the getgo – to save humans, God has done it this way, for God is Love, and that technique of rulership is NOT for everyone present in earth today, and none in the demon realm.
But Love is the Law, no getting around it, so God will prove beyond doubt, love is the perfect basis of rulership, and may men and angels forever more appreaciate it, and in the interim, we can all get WITH the program and live by cooperating with God’s legal and loving process.
Undeserved kindness is what resulted from Jesus perfect legal performance of ALL missions and directives God’s will directed him to accomplish.
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Jehovah’s Super-Covenant with Jesus Christ
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness/T56DKGTGHD6V3QPKI
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The Key event:
(Philippians 2:5-11). . .Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. 8 More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
