2nd unread mail
I carry his message to me. Im Chris, he’s Ben. He quotes my comments using the phrase “you said” or “you asked” and then he replies giving me his view plus verses. I will split his letter in two parts, cause there is character limitation.
Thanks for the help.
1st part
Hi Chris,
You said,
“As about judgement and resurrection, you mean Jesus will resurrect the evil ones just to kill them again?”
> Well, they will be resurrected for judgement. Notice the following…
Daniel 12:2 – 2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Heb. 9:27 – And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Rev. 20:12-15 – 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
You said,
“If some are not worthy to live according to God’s judgement, arent they unworthy of resurrection..arent they already judged?”
> No. As the passages above show, they are resurrected for judgement. It is a false teaching to believe that they are resurrected for a second chance. The Bible does not teach this. Everyone will be resurrected. But those who arrive to the Great White Thrown judgement will have eternal consequences for there actions because they did not accept the grace of God through Christ.
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Response:
[Recall that these resurrected ones already paid for their former sins, they actually have died, he who has died has been acquitted from his sin (Rom6:7), the payment penalty of death has been paid when that life was lost. But these are in Adam's death, an eternal death had it not been for the corresponding ransom Christ has paid with his life to bring these "righteous and unrighteous" from the graves of Adamic death, as Revelation says "death and Hades and the sea gave up those dead in them" Rev20:13:
(Revelation 20:13-15) . . .And the sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Ha′des gave up those dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. 14 And death and Ha′des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. 15 Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire.
These "deeds" are performed during the 1000 year reign, so the "judgment" of Judgment Day can go either way, for life or death, depending on the actions of these under the blood of Christ's purchase of them from the dead. So this is really the first chance man has for real life, because previously we were all dead in Adam, but Jesus is giving all in this period of 1000 years opportunity to be obedient:
(Hebrews 5:8-9) . . .Although he was a Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered; 9 and after he had been made perfect he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him. . .
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You said,
"But you say he doesnt need any help in his kingdom. I understand what you mean, but if that was the case then Jehovah would need no angels to do his work and we wouldnt read that"
> I did not say that. I asked you the question. Does Jesus need help to run the kingdom? And now I ask, did God need help from the angels?
You asked,
"If they are themselves imperfect, how are they allowed to judge other imperfect ones, how are they given judgement... and how do they reign with Christ?"
>I think you are missing the point. They are no longer "imperfect". They have been washed by the blood of Christ, sanctified and glorified. Through this grace and work of God, any man who is saved and either dies or is raptured, will be absolutely perfect. Notice what Paul says....
1Cor. 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
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Response:
The 144000 are no longer subject to death for incorruptible means it is impossible for them to sin, as it is impossible for Jesus and God, they are children of Jehovah now - this is the first resurrection to heaven:
(Revelation 2:11) He that conquers will by no means be harmed by the second death.’
(Revelation 20:6) Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.
(Philippians 3:10-11) the power of his resurrection and a sharing in his sufferings, submitting myself to a death like his, 11 [to see] if I may by any means attain to the earlier resurrection from the dead.
(Philippians 3:20-21) we are eagerly waiting for a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will refashion our humiliated body to be conformed to his glorious body according to the operation of the power that he has, even to subject all things to himself.
So that power to transform a “new creation” Gal6:15-16 into an immortal spirit being also incorruptible is required to bring God’s will to earth after, from the Kingdom power of heaven.
These are willed by God as “fellow workers”:
(1 Corinthians 3:9) For we are God’s fellow workers. YOU people are God’s field under cultivation, God’s building.
So God is the one that created all beings which he does not “need” per se, he loves them, and shares his work as he did with the Word in all creation, and also of course this restoration were he brings his son, over all Jehovah’s children, they are all brothers of the master house and share the work and inheritance as sons, no longer slaves, but co-heirs with Jesus Christ by God’s will and purpose to do this.
(Ephesians 1:5-11) . . .For he foreordained us to the adoption through Jesus Christ as sons to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 in praise of his glorious undeserved kindness which he kindly conferred upon us by means of [his] loved one. 7 By means of him we have the release by ransom through the blood of that one, yes, the forgiveness of [our] trespasses, according to the riches of his undeserved kindness. 8 This he caused to abound toward us in all wisdom and good sense, 9 in that he made known to us the sacred secret of his will. It is according to his good pleasure which he purposed in himself 10 for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, namely, to gather all things together again in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth. [Yes,] in him, 11 in union with whom we were also assigned as heirs, in that we were foreordained according to the purpose of him who operates all things according to the way his will counsels. . .
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You said,
“I believe the Bible talks about a special group of people that would be made perfect through exercise of faith and that this group along with Jesus will help others be made perfect.”
> I appreciate and respect what you believe, however, I don’t find this belief in scripture. I need to see it to believe it.
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Response:
Yes, that “special group” is a Kingdom of priests in heaven with the high priest Jesus Christ:
(1 Peter 2:9-10) But YOU are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that YOU should declare abroad the excellencies” of the one that called YOU out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 For YOU were once not a people, but are now God’s people; YOU were those who had not been shown mercy, but are now those who have been shown mercy.
And these are that heavenly priesthood with the King-Priest Jesus Christ also co-rulers but also priests:
(Revelation 1:5-6) To him that loves us and that loosed us from our sins by means of his own blood— 6 and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father. . .
That rules over earth:
(Revelation 5:9-10) with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”
And the Lamb the High Priest guides these to “waters of life” out of sin that is death obviously:
(Revelation 7:17) the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them, and will guide them to fountains of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”
This “wiping of tears” is the removal of the main misery of death – the curse verse 3, is removed by the river of the “waters of life”:
(Revelation 22:1-3) And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of its broad way. And on this side of the river and on that side [there were] trees of life producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruits each month. And the leaves of the trees [were] for the curing of the nations. 3 And no more will there be any curse. . . .
No more curse!
But instead the blessing lost by the Adamic man, restored by the heavenly Christ and his Kingdom:
(Revelation 21:1-4) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. 2 I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
Also spoken of how this restoration comes from heaven first, to earth last in the 1000 years, with respect to these and this process the bible says that the order is: The “first-fruits of the heavenly incorruptibles first, second the completion of the Kingdom of 144000, and then the “end” – a sequence, a process of “rank” heavenly perfection first to earthly perfection last (1,2,3):
(1 Corinthians 15:20-28)
However, now Christ has been raised up from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep [in death]. 21 For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a man.
22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.
[1] Heavenly first resurrection “first-fruits”:
23a But each one in his own rank: Christ the firstfruits,…
[2] the completion of the 144000 at Christ’s Kingdom power in process now (Rev7 final 144000 sealings and heavenly completion):
23b…afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.
[3] Then “the end”, the earthly removal of the “last enemy” death, which is sin that death results from in the human race on earth, the only place death is a problem:
24 Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet.
26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing.
27 For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.
(Satan and the demons are exterminated in this “last enemy’s” destruction; Heb2:14; Rev20:10)
The intermediary 144000 priests of Jesus Christ (High Priest) acting between sinful man, being made sinless by priestly guidance to God, eventually complete the work in ” the end”, the entire 1000 year reign (The “rest come to life” as in they reach human perfection, sinless “life”; Rev20:5) – Then Satan tempts a perfect human race, NOT Adamic sinners. After which sin and death are removed from mankind with any unfaithful humans – Satan and demons also annihilated, then faithful obedient humans can enjoy a one on one relationship with God who is now “all things to everyone”. That true life by obedience through Satan’s final temptation at the end of the 1000 years (Rev20:7), these have everlasting life for real, no more sacrificial covering is needed, they have attained the perfection of Jesus Christ as he was Last Adam, and left dead Adam behind.
Very Important: Then the “blessing” which the righteous “seed” (Gen3:15; Gen22:17) recovers is completed (after the 1000 years), this is the original blessing which God will not change his will and purpose regarding humans, animals and earth completely perfect NOW through Last Adam, NOT Adam who is now truly gone forever in that original curse, also removed entirely:
(Genesis 1:27-28) . . .And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.”
The “image of God”, by Last Adam Jesus Christ is returned into humanity perfected, as is the blessing of everlasting life in the restored paradise of Eden, temporarily lost, now after the 1000 years, it is fully regained, Jehovah God’s sovereignty is upheld, and his name which means He purposes to become, has become – just as God spoke his will on earth as in heaven – perfect everlasting life in His family of heaven and earth united forever.
(Revelation 22:2-3) . . .the curing of the nations. 3 And no more will there be any curse
Old Condition: (Disobedience to God = sin = death the curse)
New Condition: (Obedience to God = Everlasting life = the blessing)
And that is the basic outline of how “For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all (144000 AND faithful humans) will be made alive.”
(1 John 2:2) And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours (144000) only but also for the whole world’s (all humans).
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